Abortion right or wrong.

[prisoner_of_war]

What do you think about abortion. I personally think that is very wrong to take the life of another person. And their are places where you can put the baby up for adoption. Anyway it is a wrong thing to do and it is murder.

[ajrobin]

its right in the right situation. if someone is raped or the baby is diagnosed with a handicap in the womb then there is a case for it. as for just doing it because its inconvenient to have a baby isnt right

[prisoner_of_war]

No it is not right even in that situation. I mean look at the kids with primordial dwarfism that were diagnosed with it in the womb. It is just wrong. And if you would like to learn more search for Christopher West. He is a very good speaker on these type of things.

[MEMEROOT]

It's a womans right to choose.

A foetus is alive but it is not concious (perhaps a vegetarian might be able to avoid hypocracy), it has no memory...

if it were banned then the number of women dying from backstreet abortions would increase

a mothers future offspring would suffer as education/life prospects might be curtailed

there would be an increase in child abuse (potentialy in the home and certainly in care homes)

ban abortion and people suffer - keep it legal and no one suffers except from the potential for mental scarring caused by a idiotic dissaproving society - not the act

[prisoner_of_war]

People disappoint me. It is a far-leftist thing. And the Catholic church says that it is wrong. And please search Christopher West. And that is a far left opinion. Please anybody who agrees with me pleases help. And I am no part of an idiotic society.

[Behemoko]

Abortion FTW. It is right, what about rape victims?

[SolidSnakeUS]

It is their decision to decide to have an abortion. I agree with the abortion during the first 2 trimesters, but I don't know about the third trimester.

[prisoner_of_war]

Well you partly agreed with me so, thanks. It is their decision to decide to have an abortion. I agree with the abortion during the first 2 trimesters, but I don't know about the third trimester.

[SolidSnakeUS]

Well you partly agreed with me so, thanks.

I didn't really agree, because I don't have an answer for the third trimester, I honestly don't know how I feel about it.

[prisoner_of_war]

It doesn't matter if it can't remember anything or have a fully functional brain it is still a living human being. Choose life, your mother did. It's a womans right to choose.

A foetus is alive but it is not concious (perhaps a vegetarian might be able to avoid hypocracy), it has no memory...

if it were banned then the number of women dying from backstreet abortions would increase

a mothers future offspring would suffer as education/life prospects might be curtailed

there would be an increase in child abuse (potentialy in the home and certainly in care homes)

ban abortion and people suffer - keep it legal and no one suffers except from the potential for mental scarring caused by a idiotic dissaproving society - not the act

[ajrobin]

i'm all for open discussion of controversial topics but please don't try and force your opinion on others. you are entitled to your opinion as are we

[MEMEROOT]

my mother was in a stable relationship with my father, my mother was not a drug addict, my mother was not raped, my mother was out of school, my mother wanted a child, my mother had a house to live in...

cells in a womb have the potential to become human... as could almost any cell in our body as cloning advances.

i'm considering starting a campaign - save the hair follacle

[prisoner_of_war]

Ummmm, I don't get that. Save the hair follicle. That's just wierd.:suspect: And I'm sorry if I sounded like I wanted to force anything. But ya thats my opinion.http://www.catholic.com/library/Abortion.asp
touche. my mother was in a stable relationship with my father, my mother was not a drug addict, my mother was not raped, my mother was out of school, my mother wanted a child, my mother had a house to live in...

cells in a womb have the potential to become human... as could almost any cell in our body as cloning advances.

i'm considering starting a campaign - save the hair follacle

[MEMEROOT]

let me be clearer then - the situation my mother was in was far more ideal for choosing to raise a child than for many individuals (including partners and friends of mine).

I would not judge her (metaphoricaly as I would clearly be unable to) had she made a different choice then nor would I think less of her if she had an abortion before or after me? certainly I wouldn't I feel I had been denied a sibling because the individual never existed any more than had she miscarried.

[Fangrim]

That the Catholic church says it's wrong isn't an argument to be taken note of, I think.

Do you have a link that says the Catholic church thinks it's wrong, or against the will of God, to take sexual advantage of small boys?

In my opinion, abortion is ok, if the life of the mother is in danger, or if the child is diagnosed with a severly debilitating disease.

[Panda Bear Shenyu]

Abortion right or wrong.It's none of your business.

[MEMEROOT]

panda is correct - it is none of our business - a private matter

if an individual believes it to be wrong then they shouldn't do it, however the problem is that when they vocalise this view and join together to force others to abide by their views then it is only right that those that disagree also put across their views.

given the media atention to pro-life views it is interesting to see the results of polls such as this and others that demonstrate clearly that pro-life is a minority.

[Vulgotha]

People disappoint me. It is a far-leftist thing. And the Catholic church says that it is wrong. And please search Christopher West. And that is a far left opinion. Please anybody who agrees with me pleases help. And I am no part of an idiotic society.


Your 100% correct on this. Though I'm not Catholic, I am religious.
It is a Lefty (Liberal) thing. Its also a Right winger, (conservative) thing (as we both are).


The only true arguement the left can ever give is "Well what about those poor rape victims".

1. You have to be raped
2. You have to be raped at the right time of month
3. You have to be raped for the right amount of time
4. You have to NOT go to the hospital to get flushed out afterwards

Do you know how few rape victims there are that get pregnant? Vs. Girls that just get knocked up and don't want to take responsibility? Its laughable. Its absurd this arguement.

Even if 50% of all Abortions were due to rape, it still wouldn't make it moral or ethical. Thats just sidestepping the issue, a colorful distraction. So what do they do? They redefine ethics and law. its all about "The Right to Privacy" (Roe vs. Wade).

Funny thing. The Constitution makes absolutely NO mention of "The Right to Privacy" Just like it has never mentioned " Seperation of Church and State". Sure its implied, but it was NEVER meant to be carried out and delt with like Judicial activists are today.

This whole thing is a mockery of justice, of life, and of morality. Bottom line: You have to be desperate to buy into this crap. You have to be searching for any kind of justification. PERIOD.

Its an arguement that holds no water. But hey, they have the voice of all the girls that want to get laid 24\7 right? They have the young vote and the Feminist vote.

Feminists love this.


Here is somthing to chew on:

American Deaths:

Revolutionary War ~ 4,435 deaths
Civil War (Both sides) ~ 498,332 deaths
World War I ~ 116,708 deaths
World War II ~ 407,316 deaths
Korea ~ 25,604 deaths
Vietnam ~ 58,168 deaths

Total Killed due to Abortion since 1973 ~ 35,000,000. (Thirty Five Million).


^ But I'm 100% sure this all due to "Rape" Victims and "Birth Defects" right?

I laugh at all those who support this arguement. May God help you.

[SolidSnakeUS]

I personally am a liberal and this is how I feel on where this thread is going: *PUTS HEAD IN HAND*.

[Vulgotha]

Well, I'm a hard line conservative, and I think these threads are ridiculious. Why do we have 2 anyway? We have TWO abortion threads. No one has locked one or the other yet.


hey, I'm a Theo-con, I'm trying to be fair here. I just think the abortion arguement is shallow.


But you gotta admit my friend, an "Abortion morality thread" on "PS3forums" IS kinda funny.

[prisoner_of_war]

Finaly! Thank you. Yes I totally agree with you! Yes that is the only thing the left would fight for, even though it's a diminutive argument. (No offense meant to anybody)And I have nothing against liberals. It's just the crazy FARRRR LEFT that bothers me. I do not want to offend anybody. Your 100% correct on this. Though I'm not Catholic, I am religious. And yes, may God help you.
It is a Lefty (Liberal) thing. Its also a Right winger, (conservative) thing (as we both are).


The only true arguement the left can ever give is "Well what about those poor rape victims".

1. You have to be raped
2. You have to be raped at the right time of month
3. You have to be raped for the right amount of time
4. You have to NOT go to the hospital to get flushed out afterwards

Do you know how few rape victims there are that get pregnant? Vs. Girls that just get knocked up and don't want to take responsibility? Its laughable. Its absurd this arguement.

Even if 50% of all Abortions were due to rape, it still wouldn't make it moral or ethical. Thats just sidestepping the issue, a colorful distraction. So what do they do? They redefine ethics and law. its all about "The Right to Privacy" (Roe vs. Wade).

Funny thing. The Constitution makes absolutely NO mention of "The Right to Privacy" Just like it has never mentioned " Seperation of Church and State". Sure its implied, but it was NEVER meant to be carried out and delt with like Judicial activists are today.

This whole thing is a mockery of justice, of life, and of morality. Bottom line: You have to be desperate to buy into this crap. You have to be searching for any kind of justification. PERIOD.

Its an arguement that holds no water. But hey, they have the voice of all the girls that want to get laid 24\7 right? They have the young vote and the Feminist vote.

Feminists love this.


Here is somthing to chew on:

American Deaths:

Revolutionary War ~ 4,435 deaths
Civil War (Both sides) ~ 498,332 deaths
World War I ~ 116,708 deaths
World War II ~ 407,316 deaths
Korea ~ 25,604 deaths
Vietnam ~ 58,168 deaths

Total Killed due to Abortion since 1973 ~ 35,000,000. (Thirty Five Million).


^ But I'm 100% sure this all due to "Rape" Victims and "Birth Defects" right?

I laugh at all those who support this arguement. May God help you.

[SolidSnakeUS]

I think this thread should just stop right now. Not because I am liberal but it seems that this thread is trying to convince people that Abortion is either right or wrong. I think that should be their opinions, not others. I have my opinions, you have your opinions and I think we should keep it at that. No one has the right to press their opinions on others. It's like trying to press on someone by saying that the Patriot Act is the greatest thing since sliced bread, that won't go over with a lot (when I mean a lot, I mean A LOT) of people. And as stated before, this is the second thread dealing with abortions.

[janenba352]

It doesn't matter if it can't remember anything or have a fully functional brain it is still a living human being. Choose life, your mother did.

Your actually completely wrong. Before the third trimester the embryo/fetus are nothing more the parasites feeding off its host using the moisture of the womb to keep itself from drying out and dying. It can't legitly be called a human till it starts growing its brain and starts forming it's instinctive reactions (like kicking).

I did a project on abortion a few years back for school. Everything MEMEROOT said is true. If abortion is banned more people will hate their children for screwing up their lives, causing not just child beatings but more marriages to fail, more dumpster babies, more health issues due women giving birth to their unwanted children out in the middle of no where.

And why are you bring the church into this? The church has been corrupt for centuries now. What they agree with and disagree with shouldn't hold water anymore. The only reason people turn to the church for answers is that it grants false hope during life and for the after-life.

At the end of all this, its the parent's decision that matters. not ours.

[Perfect Sin]

It's her choice, as long as I don't have to sit there and watch the process.

Personally, if I got a girl pregnant accidentally, why should I have to ruin my life to support a kid I don't want?

Wouldn't that self-hate rub off on the child and my parenting? Wouldn't that child lead a more screwed up life then if I actually wanted it?

I'd rather take it's life, before it even can think or know what life is, then bring it up in a world where it won't function with the fullest potential or love that I could give it.

[prisoner_of_war]

Are you in the church? If you aren't how would you know of that? Your actually completely wrong. Before the third trimester the embryo/fetus are nothing more the parasites feeding off its host using the moisture of the womb to keep itself from drying out and dying. It can't legitly be called a human till it starts growing its brain and starts forming it's instinctive reactions (like kicking).

I did a project on abortion a few years back for school. Everything MEMEROOT said is true. If abortion is banned more people will hate their children for screwing up their lives, causing not just child beatings but more marriages to fail, more dumpster babies, more health issues due women giving birth to their unwanted children out in the middle of no where.

And why are you bring the church into this? The church has been corrupt for centuries now. What they agree with and disagree with shouldn't hold water anymore. The only reason people turn to the church for answers is that it grants false hope during life and for the after-life.

At the end of all this, its the parent's decision that matters. not ours.

[Vulgotha]

Lol, you can try and rationalize it however way you want Perfect Sin. look through your paragraph how many times do you say "I"?

Its selfishness.


People will try any kind of moral outlet to justify "I".

[SolidSnakeUS]

Are you in the church? If you aren't how would you know of that?

See, the thing is, I went to church for at least 5 years and I am a Baptist Christian. And you know what, I would rather follow what is said in the Bible than the Church mainly because the Bible hasn't been tainted, but the some of the beliefs and how some interpret the Bible within the church have screwed with politics and lives for way too long. There is nothing in the Bible that states anything about abortion. So if you think about it, the whole abortion thing in the church is something they came up with. Anyways, there are other things than believing the church, believe in yourself, believe in what you see, believe in what you feel, don't let people run your life. Think for yourself, that is the ultimate gift to any man or woman.

[janenba352]

Are you in the church? If you aren't how would you know of that?

look up the movie Becket or the history of Saint Thomas... both will suffice. Or look up church history. The fact they kicked all women out of power and made Mary Magdalene seem to be a ***** when she wasn't. The Pope has been bribed thousands of times during the centuries. Why does a group that believes in peace need to have their own country to rule over the churches of the world (The Vatican)?

@Vulgotha - Sin was placing himself in the shoes of people who actually deal with that situation. If I was in that situation those things would be running through my head. What he said was just as logical as what I did.

[Imgoingnuts]

womans choice, but the ideal situation is not to get pregnet in the first place. use PROTECTION!

[Ixquiz]

I really can't say since i'm a male and would never be faced with this decision, I think it's for a woman to decide.

[prisoner_of_war]

OK ya the bibles fine, but which testament are you following? OK the Catholic church is based on believing what you can't see. So that ending is completely false. Take St. Thomas in the bible. He did not believe that Jesus had risen. And no free will is not the ultimate gift, it could be the best, OR the worst gift. Figure that out.And yes the church was very corrupt in the middle ages. But now it is not. See, the thing is, I went to church for at least 5 years and I am a Baptist Christian. And you know what, I would rather follow what is said in the Bible than the Church mainly because the Bible hasn't been tainted, but the some of the beliefs and how some interpret the Bible within the church have screwed with politics and lives for way too long. There is nothing in the Bible that states anything about abortion. So if you think about it, the whole abortion thing in the church is something they came up with. Anyways, there are other things than believing the church, believe in yourself, believe in what you see, believe in what you feel, don't let people run your life. Think for yourself, that is the ultimate gift to any man or woman.

[janenba352]

OK ya the bibles fine, but which testament are you following? OK the Catholic church is based on believing what you can't see. So that ending is completely false. Take St. Thomas in the bible. He did not believe that Jesus had risen. And no free will is not the ultimate gift, it could be the best, OR the worst gift. Figure that out.And yes the church was very corrupt in the middle ages. But now it is not.

you do know that St. Thomas wouldn't be a St. if King Edward didnt bribe the Pope to make him one right? He was arch duke of cantibary(sp?) though.

[prisoner_of_war]

Ha, I win. You don't even know which St. I was talking about. I was talking about doubting Thomas, one of Jesus' apostles.:) And no, St. Thomas of England was Martyred for his faith. you do know that St. Thomas wouldn't be a St. if King Edward didnt bribe the Pope to make him one right? He was arch duke of cantibary(sp?) though.

[Fangrim]

And yes the church was very corrupt in the middle ages. But now it is not.

Quote of the week right there!

I better stay away from this futile discussion, as it'll only end up in me ranting...

[prisoner_of_war]

What do you mean:confused::evil: Quote of the week right there!

I better stay away from this futile discussion, as it'll only end up in me ranting...

[janenba352]

Quote of the week right there!

I better stay away from this futile discussion, as it'll only end up in me ranting...

lol feel free, use my thread

http://ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=76595

just try to make it a civil rant =]

[QuickSilverD]

Lol @ this thread

Well I’m, a man so I can only have a shallow opinion here, anyway how I see it, it is not as simple as right or wrong, Legally speaking a woman should be able to have an abortion in one of these two situations:


When her own life is in danger/ or the baby has a severe deficiency (and I mean severe)
In the case of rape
According to what someone said before me in this thread, most abortions have nothing to do with rape or life in danger situation, thus making most abortions wrong.

Now to the ones that say “but it’s the woman’s rights” I have a better solution: “Do get yourself pregnant in the first place” is not that hard to avoid, this is the f*cking 21 century there are like 1,000 methods to avoid the damage, starting with the pill, or better yet don’t have sex at all.

To the ones that do not understand why it is that the Church against it, this is the way they see it:

People (all of us) most life under the will of God
People don’t have any right to end any life, not even their own
An unborn child is a life (regardless of how young)
An abortion is killing that life.
Abortion = Murder
Murder = sin
Sin = God is angry

[SolidSnakeUS]

Now this thread got me singing the song from Monty Python called "Every Sperm is Sacred". And so I started to laugh :lol:.

[JeffPara]

Your 100% correct on this. Though I'm not Catholic, I am religious.
It is a Lefty (Liberal) thing. Its also a Right winger, (conservative) thing (as we both are).


The only true arguement the left can ever give is "Well what about those poor rape victims".

1. You have to be raped
2. You have to be raped at the right time of month
3. You have to be raped for the right amount of time
4. You have to NOT go to the hospital to get flushed out afterwards

Do you know how few rape victims there are that get pregnant? Vs. Girls that just get knocked up and don't want to take responsibility? Its laughable. Its absurd this arguement.

Even if 50% of all Abortions were due to rape, it still wouldn't make it moral or ethical. Thats just sidestepping the issue, a colorful distraction. So what do they do? They redefine ethics and law. its all about "The Right to Privacy" (Roe vs. Wade).

Funny thing. The Constitution makes absolutely NO mention of "The Right to Privacy" Just like it has never mentioned " Seperation of Church and State". Sure its implied, but it was NEVER meant to be carried out and delt with like Judicial activists are today.

This whole thing is a mockery of justice, of life, and of morality. Bottom line: You have to be desperate to buy into this crap. You have to be searching for any kind of justification. PERIOD.

Its an arguement that holds no water. But hey, they have the voice of all the girls that want to get laid 24\7 right? They have the young vote and the Feminist vote.

Feminists love this.


Here is somthing to chew on:

American Deaths:

Revolutionary War ~ 4,435 deaths
Civil War (Both sides) ~ 498,332 deaths
World War I ~ 116,708 deaths
World War II ~ 407,316 deaths
Korea ~ 25,604 deaths
Vietnam ~ 58,168 deaths

Total Killed due to Abortion since 1973 ~ 35,000,000. (Thirty Five Million).


^ But I'm 100% sure this all due to "Rape" Victims and "Birth Defects" right?

I laugh at all those who support this arguement. May God help you.


Too bloody right mate, the idea of justifying the murder of a child due to a rape, I can somewhat swallow and accept, but, the vast majority of abortions are due to not wanting to take the responsibility of another life. Pathetic, even the idea of condoning an abortion is absurd. The idea of condoning murder, when completely justifyable, is already pushing it, but for the pure reason of

[DINAMO788]

to take this to the extreme. lets say you can find out the eye color of your baby and it has green eyes. you want a baby with blue eyes so you have an abortion. so what? and as far as having a child that we can see will inherintly have some kind of life changing defect, why not have an abortion? why bring him into the world and have him suffer, and the parents suffer when you can do renege.

[DAFTEK]

It's a womans right to choose.

A foetus is alive but it is not concious (perhaps a vegetarian might be able to avoid hypocracy), it has no memory...

if it were banned then the number of women dying from backstreet abortions would increase

a mothers future offspring would suffer as education/life prospects might be curtailed

there would be an increase in child abuse (potentialy in the home and certainly in care homes)

ban abortion and people suffer - keep it legal and no one suffers except from the potential for mental scarring caused by a idiotic dissaproving society - not the act


Best ABORTION response i have seen in a long time! CHOICE!!!

[DayWalker]

the rich will always be able to have "safe" abortions...

I don't think the question is phrased correctly. right or wrong???

Personally I think it is the womens choice- but at the same time I feel like an abortion should be like a one time thing (maybe twice). that't just me... I don't think you should be getting abortions multiple times a year :lol:

What we really need to focus on is teaching safe sex. Abstinence education is a joke.

[hoverbike]

See, the thing is, I went to church for at least 5 years and I am a Baptist Christian. And you know what, I would rather follow what is said in the Bible than the Church mainly because the Bible hasn't been tainted, but the some of the beliefs and how some interpret the Bible within the church have screwed with politics and lives for way too long. There is nothing in the Bible that states anything about abortion. So if you think about it, the whole abortion thing in the church is something they came up with. Anyways, there are other things than believing the church, believe in yourself, believe in what you see, believe in what you feel, don't let people run your life. Think for yourself, that is the ultimate gift to any man or woman.

This is the best post in the thread even though it's off topic. The bible doesn't have anything to say about abortion but it does have something to say about murder. The real debate is whether or not it's murder.

[prisoner_of_war]

What, yes it does, just look more carefully at the link I gave you guys, here it is againhttp://www.catholic.com/library/Abortion.asp
There it is just look more carefully this time. This is the best post in the thread even though it's off topic. The bible doesn't have anything to say about abortion but it does have something to say about murder. The real debate is whether or not it's murder.

[janenba352]

What, yes it does, just look more carefully at the link I gave you guys, here it is againhttp://www.catholic.com/library/Abortion.asp
There it is just look more carefully this time.

Wait... so the bible looks down on killing a parasite? Thats all an embryo is till the 3rd trimester... if the parasite's going to kill it's host (mother) then wouldn't be better to kill the parasite then both die? I think so.

[prisoner_of_war]

Parasite or not, it will become a human. From the moment of contraception the emryo is a human and killing that would be murder. Wait... so the bible looks down on killing a parasite? Thats all an embryo is till the 3rd trimester... if the parasite's going to kill it's host (mother) then wouldn't be better to kill the parasite then both die? I think so.

[Zetsumei]

What's up with all this abortions thread this is the second one!!!!
Mods can you do something about this?
Here is the link to the other thread!

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=11304

Note: the thread poll and question is should be legal or illegal, either way.

[SolidSnakeUS]

What's up with all this abortions thread this is the second one!!!!
Mods can you do something about this?
Here is the link to the other thread!

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=11304

Note: the thread poll and question is should be legal or illegal, either way.

I tried to get this to stop by sending a message to Perfect Sin and he just added to the conversation. What a help by the mods.

[MrFenwick]

Wrong in every sense. 'Tis Murder my friends. Its still a living thing.

[Zetsumei]

I tried to get this to stop by sending a message to Perfect Sin and he just added to the conversation. What a help by the mods.

Whatever then, I did my part and you did yours! ;)

[prisoner_of_war]

Man, you are so right I just can't stand that Janeba guy. making' false things everywhere, poor misguided people.:rolleyes: Wrong in every sense. 'Tis Murder my friends. Its still a living thing.

[janenba352]

Wrong in every sense. 'Tis Murder my friends. Its still a living thing.

Well if its murder then when a lion kills a deer, its going to hell, when a snake eats an mouse, its going to hell, when a rabbit eats its babies, its going to hell?

Man, you are so right I just can't stand that Janeba guy. making' false things everywhere, poor misguided people.:rolleyes:

Well if im misguided ill be standing next to the devil when you arrive =] and its Janenba

[prisoner_of_war]

Lions and other animals don't have souls like Humans do. And don't even throw the evolution crap about monkeys being human because there not. Well if its murder then when a lion kills a deer, its going to hell, when a snake eats an mouse, its going to hell, when a rabbit eats its babies, its going to hell?



Well if im misguided ill be standing next to the devil when you arrive =] and its Janenba

[Zetsumei]

Man, you are so right I just can't stand that Janeba guy. making' false things everywhere, poor misguided people.:rolleyes:

People have dif. believes, who are you to judge other ppl?
If they think it's right... it's right... if they think it's wrong it's wrong.
If they want to believe that there is a God and he is looking out after you... hey be my guest. But I'm not going to spend my time reading the bible or other bs with out a solid prof that God does exist! Why I say that? I must be gone mad? No actually, the fact that there is pure soul babies being born with disease and missing arm or leg, or blind or whatever... Where is god then? I mean just because the mother or father of the child committed some sins or made bad choices why the *** does the kid has to suffer for it... There are for, I believe religion should not be brought up into this subject... Because as you can see people believe in diff. things. So you can't say it's against gods will to have abortion, when (there is nothing on the bible that states that abortion is wrong)! Now is it murder or not? Well that depends on the situation, I believe that should be a woman decision whether she wants to have an abortion or not. And I think it should be done in the first month or so...

Either way, I'm not going to fight over this, after all I didn't came in here to talk about religion, but talk about my ps3!!!:-D

[SolidSnakeUS]

People have dif. believes, who are you to judge other ppl?
If they think it's right... it's right... if they think it's wrong it's wrong.
If they want to believe that there is a God and he is looking out after you... hey be my guest. But I'm not going to spend my time reading the bible or other bs with out a solid prof that God does exist! Why I say that? I must be gone mad? No actually, the fact that there is pure soul babies being born with disease and missing arm or leg, or blind or whatever... Where is god then? I mean just because the mother or father of the child committed some sins or made bad choices why the *** does the kid has to suffer for it... There are for, I believe religion should not be brought up into this subject... Because as you can see people believe in diff. things. So you can't say it's against gods will to have abortion, when (there is nothing on the bible that states that abortion is wrong)! Now is it murder or not? Well that depends on the situation, I believe that should be a woman decision whether she wants to have an abortion or not. And I think it should be done in the first month or so...

Either way, I'm not going to fight over this, after all I didn't came in here to talk about religion, but talk about my ps3!!!:-D

Boo religion! YAY FOR THE PS3! :lol:.

[MrFenwick]

Well if its murder then when a lion kills a deer, its going to hell, when a snake eats an mouse, its going to hell, when a rabbit eats its babies, its going to hell?

I go what with the Bible says. Because you know, if people would follow it, things would be really different and better.

Genesis 9:6
Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image he made man.

Exodus 21:22-25
“And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, branding for branding, wound for wound, blow for blow.

Psalms 139:13-16
For you yourself produced my kidneys;
You kept me screened off in the belly of my mother.

I shall laud you because in a fear-inspiring way I am wonderfully made.
Your works are wonderful,
As my soul is very well aware.

My bones were not hidden from you
When I was made in secret,
When I was woven in the lowest parts of the earth.

Your eyes saw even the embryo of me,
And in your book all its parts were down in writing,
As regards the days when they were formed
And there was not yet one among them.

[janenba352]

Boo religion! YAY FOR THE PS3! :lol:.

Ken Kutaragi is the real god!!!! We should have a religion based around him and his infinite wisdom =D

[SolidSnakeUS]

Ken Kutaragi is the real god!!!! We should have a religion based around him and his infinite wisdom =D

All hail Sony and their infinite wisdom! :lol:

[Solid_Squirrel]

I honestly don't know why, maybe it's cuz I'm a horrible person but I thought first about a dead baby joke (I'm going to hell aren't I?)

As a Atheist I don't see any reason why religion is involved (It shouldn't be even be bothering with those affairs, Considering that they won't allow Condoms for safe sex)

And as a a person I believed it's a woman choice (of course it should be discuss with her lover) I don't understand why the government wants to infringe in on personal rights and freedoms

[janenba352]

All hail Sony and their infinite wisdom! :lol:

na.. just Ken... I hate Jack Trenton.. he is a ******...

Anyways...

Isn't it true the anyone who didn't follow the Catholic Church at one time get killed? The church committed murder on a wide-scale. Shouldn't that mean the Church leaders should have gone to hell?

Also, not sure if this is true but doesn't the church frown upon people with birth defects/abnormalities?

[Zetsumei]

Genesis 9:6
Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image he made man.

So let me get this straight? LMFAO, so in another words, if you kill someone you will be killed? Isn't revenge against religion? Now I'm confuse...

Humm...
*Continuous to worship the Ps3!*

[HellsJester]

I believe it should be a option for people that want one.
If you think its wrong thats fine then dont get one, this option is for people that want it.

[Arimax]

Well it's wrong case in point, and it's murder. I don't want to hear that crap that a embryo isn't alive until the third trimester. Anyway you might regert doing both which is A. having the abortion, and B. letting that baby die.

[Tha_Legend]

What do you think about abortion. I personally think that is very wrong to take the life of another person. And their are places where you can put the baby up for adoption. Anyway it is a wrong thing to do and it is murder.

You can't ask if abortion is right or wrong, it's not that simple.

[DINAMO788]

im perfectly fine with it. in many cases it can be seen as more humane than putting up a baby for adoption. our world is ocerpopulated as it is, why add more to the world, especially if they will only end up in some adoption place. we have enough kids who need to be adopted

[Arimax]

The only reason why the world is overpopulated is because of stupid people. Who think they can just have sex any no. of times they want without nothing being even slighty wrong. I bet there are people out there (men) who probably have 20 something kids don't even know it (trust me it's possible).

Then another reason why you may feel it's overpopulated is because the food supply is slowly draining away. Cause of over doing everything fishing/hunting, and everything else.

[prisoner_of_war]

hey, my family has 8:) The rest of my whole combined family on my dad's side, 40+ kids. but then again. My parents are married.

[DINAMO788]

so its ok to have that many if ur married?

[Behemoko]

hey, my family has 8:) The rest of my whole combined family on my dad's side, 40+ kids. but then again. My parents are married.


Sounds like your family should have had some abortions, lol! (jk)

[Arimax]

Well I know it was okay like way back, but now it's like that's just way to many. I mean I hardly see more than more than like 4 per family now.

Anyway isn't it time to populate a new planet by now lol.

[Firefox]

In terms of religion, abortion is not allowed except in rare cases such
as rape etc... So this questions isn't as simple as 'yes' or 'no'.


"Then we developed the drop into a hanging (embryo), then
developed the hanging (embryo) into a bite-size (fetus),
then created the bite-size (fetus) into bones, then
covered the bones with flesh. We thus produce (Anshaa) a new
creature. Most blessed is GOD, the best Creator." [23:14, Quran]

[DINAMO788]

i just cant stand hearing a moral argument over it. your not my mom so take your morals and shove them up your ***

[killzone_71]

Its wrong... your killing a innocent kid... and the blood of your child is in your hands...

[DINAMO788]

yes its in my hands. you think its wrong, dont do it. im fine with it. so who are you to stop me
(playing the role of a women)

[MiNiMaL_sAnItY]

Its right. Its like saying that you shouldnt use medicines because they make you live longer. OK, ok bad analogy, but you get the point right?

[Vulgotha]

yes its in my hands. you think its wrong, dont do it. im fine with it. so who are you to stop me
(playing the role of a women)



A society without morales is a doomed society indeed. So keep your legs shut.



And NO its not like that. Your right, a terrible analogy. Its taking human life. Potential human life, fetus, whatever you call it. I don't care about Trimesters.

Its taking a life because YOU, as a human being, could NOT keep your legs shut. I don't care if it screws up your life, I'm engulfed in apathy over it. I don't care if your stuck in the lower rung of society in order to take care of that kid.

Jeez, give it up to an orphanage! Put it up for adoption!

Pain of child birth? I don't want to hear it, talk to a human being who cares.


Pathetic. absolutely pathetic.

[DINAMO788]

it seems your so blinded by the thought of killing a baby you dont look at other factors. you claim total apathy if it ruins yourself and if you're living in the lower rung of society to take care of the child..well guess what that child is also living miserably in the lower rungs. and i dont know how well the parent is treating the child either. it could be hungry, neglected, or worse. its entire life could be miserable and putting it up for adoption hoping that some family will take it in isn't a great life either. if its going to end up worse for both the parent and child then dont have the baby. why would you want to "save" it from an abortion just for it to have a horrible life. nothing wrong with death, especially to something which hasen't even been born.

edit i read your last line and...NO YOU!

[MiNiMaL_sAnItY]

Jeez, give it up to an orphanage! Put it up for adoption!

Yeah, heres a society with morales! Giving birth is necessary even if the child will end up in an orphanage?

Potential life. A cell lives, insects live, and trees live. But you can use cells for experiments, kills insects because they intrude your homes, and "kill" trees" for your food, all without a second thought. So if ou ate the seed of a watermelon, would it be death of "potential life"? hmmm....

[Vulgotha]

Yeah, heres a society with morales! Giving birth is necessary even if the child will end up in an orphanage?

Potential life. A cell lives, insects live, and trees live. But you can use cells for experiments, kills insects because they intrude your homes, and "kill" trees" for your food, all without a second thought. So if ou ate the seed of a watermelon, would it be death of "potential life"? hmmm....



Well if she hadn't kept her legs shut in the first place.......


Yea ok, death is WAY better then being adopted. Fantastic logic.

Yup, they can all die and rot. Couldn't care less. Don't even attempt to make the case that animals\insects\PLANTS are equivelent to sentient, Human Beings. That like trying to shove the circle in the square hole on a fisherprice toddler board.


Sad.

[MrLefty92]

What the F**k does this have to do with the PS3? Can you do this crap somewhere else? This is so random, especially on a PS3 Forum site..

[Vulgotha]

What the F**k does this have to do with the PS3? Can you do this crap somewhere else? This is so random, especially on a PS3 Forum site..


Occasionally we hold political\philosophical discussions. Welcome to PS3forum. Don't like it?
there are plenty of other gaming forums to go to.

[janenba352]

What the F**k does this have to do with the PS3? Can you do this crap somewhere else? This is so random, especially on a PS3 Forum site..

this is the general chit chat section.. no the PS3 section.

[MiNiMaL_sAnItY]

Well if she hadn't kept her legs shut in the first place.......


Yea ok, death is WAY better then being adopted. Fantastic logic.

Yup, they can all die and rot. Couldn't care less. Don't even attempt to make the case that animals\insects\PLANTS are equivelent to sentient, Human Beings. That like trying to shove the circle in the square hole on a fisherprice toddler board.


Sad.

Suppose Mr.A was a child of a lower class parents, they didnt have much money to feed three mouths right now , so they put Mr.A for adoption. Now Mr.A is in a foster home sharing all of his things with 100s of other children because people "just had" them instead of opting for adoption. Now, half of these children are accepted by stand in parents under the best case scenario. Lets assume that those who got accepted lead normal lives. The other half are homeless by they are homeless by they're 18 years old. Mr.A is one of them. He would rather die right now......

So, yes thats my final opinion/post in this thread. Take it how you want it.

[DINAMO788]

vulgotha cant even begin to use logic and reason...just look at how rash and harsh his reponses are....its pointless

[Vulgotha]

vulgotha cant even begin to use logic and reason...just look at how rash and harsh his reponses are....its pointless


Yea, I'm not using logic and reason.

Thats the pot calling the kettle black.



Qoute: "Minimal_Sanity:Giving birth is necessary even if the child will end up in an orphanage"

^ that is self explanatory. What I said is perfectly legitimate.


So, because it has the potential of living a bad life (Due to the mothers immoral lifestyle of course) we should just "Put it down" like some animal or pet?
Really, the lack of value put on human life nowadays is quite frightening.

Yea, I am "Hung up" on saving a babys life. The Quality of the life you live is irrelevent, Life>Death. Especially when the young individual has no say in the matter. (obviously since he's like in his 1st Trimester). You decide that the Baby will live a wretched life and grow up to be a nobody. YOU decide that he is probably better off death. You base your entire arguement off assumptions. Thats logic.

Ever heard of Okhums Razor? Its a method of choosing a more sound theory\principle in the scientific community, by choosing the one made with the least amount of assumptions.
We reap what we sow. Immorality has a price.

[KG2go]

i voted for wrong but it really does depend so its neither wrong nor right i guess.. it depends on the situation

[prisoner_of_war]

Look at other factors, come on! If it weren't for neglectful mothers that smoke and use booze the baby wouldn't have those birth deficiencies. From the moment of contraception the Embryo has a soul, therefore making it a life. So, parasite or not, it is a life valuable by God. And for the people thinking that God made that plan for it to be killed, He didn't He intended the child to be born. And yes for the sake of the parent spiritually it is better not to have an abortion. So if you kill it you are, in fact, taking a life. it seems your so blinded by the thought of killing a baby you dont look at other factors. you claim total apathy if it ruins yourself and if you're living in the lower rung of society to take care of the child..well guess what that child is also living miserably in the lower rungs. and i dont know how well the parent is treating the child either. it could be hungry, neglected, or worse. its entire life could be miserable and putting it up for adoption hoping that some family will take it in isn't a great life either. if its going to end up worse for both the parent and child then dont have the baby. why would you want to "save" it from an abortion just for it to have a horrible life. nothing wrong with death, especially to something which hasen't even been born.

edit i read your last line and...NO YOU!

[Arimax]

You know I'll tell you like this Abortion is right in 3rd world countries, but in america no. Most of the people that get abortions are those that have sex like 458 times a year. That crap about rape that hardly ever happens, and then most rapes don't lead to pregnacy. Anyway some people that get raped in my eyes they asked for it.

[MEMEROOT]

although many christians (but by no means all) think it is wrong, is it right that they can define what other non christians should do?

[Behemoko]

some people that get raped in my eyes they asked for it.

It's called "rape" for a reason, they didn't ask for it..

Why continue arguing if we're not going to sway any positions, if my gf/wife and I want an abortion, we'll get one, if you don't want one, leave it up to your gf/wife, and be done with it. You can't sway us into your retched morals, so don't bother, and we, are obviously not going to sway you into ours.. I think this has become a spam fest, and everybody is open to insult that is going on un-noticed, I'm sure I'll get flamed even for this post, if you can't keep things civil, I think it should be shut down..

[Arimax]

Well hey if you think it's right by all means go right ahead, but then if you're girlfriend dies from it don't come crying to us.

Anyway as for that comment some people do ask for it not literally, but people like that idiot Paris Hilton. If she were to be raped I'll laugh cause it's funny.

[Behemoko]

Well hey if you think it's right by all means go right ahead, but then if you're girlfriend dies from it don't come crying to us.

Way to show your age, lol. People don't die from getting abortions, they are probably more likely to die while giving birth.

(Told you I'd get flamed for my post, even though the whole thing was just stating how much of a spam/flame/insult fest this thing turned into.)

[MEMEROOT]

I dont understand why christians worry about the abortions of non christians.

were the foetus's not aborted they'd grown into fine non christian adults age, die and go to hell anyway.

[Arimax]

Hey behemoko you never know. Remember that saying too much of a good thing can be bad.

[Pong]

There is no simple answer to this, right or wrong. It depends on the situation whether it is right or wrong. Bottom line is that no one other than the woman should have the final decision on whether it is right or wrong.

Just a side note - if you have a sister, mom, girlfriend, wife, etc. that gets pregnant from rape, should she be able to have an abortion? This is just one example of many but all of them should be decided by the woman.

[prisoner_of_war]

No they wouldn't, just as long as they haven't been living a horrible life. And actually wanted to go to heaven. I dont understand why christians worry about the abortions of non christians.

were the foetus's not aborted they'd grown into fine non christian adults age, die and go to hell anyway.

[twh116]

If a woman is pregnant and doesn't want the baby, they can legally kill it with an abortion. If a woman kills her two-week old because it is inconvenient, it is murder. It would be immoral to kill a child, so why do some people find it moral to kill a would-be child? should women have the right to kill their infants if they want? No.

If abortions are convenient, some women will have sex with anyone and just "kill" off all their pregnacies. couples will think twice about having sex if abortions are illegal. If people don't want a baby, then don't create one.

[TzarChasm]

A few things regarding abortion:

1) It's the woman's body the baby resides in, but it's not the woman's body that's affected permanantly by the "procedure." To say abortion is acceptable because she can choose if she wants the child or not is to put a fetus directly on par with cancer.

2) The term "fetus" is never used when talking to a happy, expecting mother. Nobody asks you, "How's your fetus doing, Jill?" They ask about the baby. What's the difference between a fetus and a baby? Absolutely nothing...

Except for the fact that "fetus" subconsciously makes you think of a gob of wet flesh, and "baby" makes you think of cute, fat people wriggling their fingers. If you've ever seen The Silence of the Lambs you'll be familiar with the scene in which the girl is in the well with the bad guy chanting to her, "It puts the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again." This is what's called disassociation, and not only is it a very real psychological practice, but it's also something serial killers rely on to make their murders possible.

Basically, you take what you realize consciously is a human being, then you reduce it through words to a chunk of meat (referring to the victim as "it," rather than "her," or worse yet, by name) and in the end, it leaves you unable to see the person you're killing as human. To call a baby a fetus pre-abortion is nothing more and nothing less than disassociation in preparation for taking a human life. I challenge anyone to effectively argue this point.

3) In the USA it is illegal to disturb an eagle's nest. In fact, if you're caught climbing a tree in which an eagle nests, you're charged criminally--even if you don't disturb the egg. God forbid you should break the egg, then you're in very hot water with a lot of different people.

How you can be charged with a crime for killing what's universally recognized as an unborn eagle (not an eagle fetus, it's just considered a bird that hasn't cracked the shell yet), and allowed to proudly march to a clinic to have your own human child aborted is beyond me. What it amounts to is a blatant double-standard, and admission that we're aware that abortion is the killing of a human being, yet we don't care.

America treats unborn birds as vastly superior to a human child. If that doesn't make you sick, if you can't honestly admit that this dichotomy exists and it is a vile thing, then I honestly have to question how you can sleep at night.

4) Even if you choose not to keep your child, abortion is never necessary. Ever. Adoption is always a better option. There are families that cry themselves to sleep at night because of their inability to conceive, and even if the child isn't adopted, there's always the potential for a better life being raised in an orphanage than there is in a coffin the size of a football...

Sex is the leading cause of pregnancy. If you don't want to get pregnant, either stop having sex (the only true method of safe sex), or use effective protection. Your baby need not be terminated because Mommy felt that continuing her education was more important than accepting the responsibility she embraced when she had sex.

Having an abortion doesn't make you un-pregnant; it makes you the mother of a dead baby.

[Vulgotha]

Couldn't agree more Czarchasm. I've been saying the same thing all along as well.

[Xaor]

I'm a person who has views on lots of things, and will express them freely, but this is a question I literally don't know my opinion on...