Tears for Boris "Death of the Russian President"

[Pr0LiFiX]

Just heard the news of the president of Russia laying six-feet under. :cry:

I have a russian and jewish background, so I can feel for the man who lead the Russian Federation.


Tears for Boris

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2483843.ece

They filed past the open casket in silence save for the occasional sob, straining to catch a glimpse of a man who gave them their first taste of freedom in the early Nineties. But this was not a mass outpouring of grief; they came in their thousands rather than in their tens of thousands, a sign, if one was needed, that in death, as in life, Boris Yeltsin's contradictory personality has the power to divide.

His body lay in state beneath the giant, golden onion-dome of the Cathedral of Christ the Saviour, next to the quiet currents of the Moskva river. Its squat exterior was evocative of the late bear-like politician himself and, indeed, if it wasn't for Yeltsin perhaps the cathedral would not be standing at all. Dynamited on Josef Stalin's orders in 1931, it was rebuilt during Yeltsin's time in office and became a somewhat showy symbol of Nineties Russia: Yeltsin's Russia. And yesterday he was its star attraction.

Under the gaze of huge wall-mounted icons, a priest filled the air with incense while piped music gurgled peacefully in the background. Yeltsin's body was watched over by a guard of honour who had draped the white, blue and red Russian flag over his coffin, which was positioned in such a way that it was only possible to discern part of his profile. Nearby, clad in black, sat his widow, Naina, along with his two daughters and other members of the Yeltsin family. Outside, mourners solemnly queued, clutching bouquets of flowers and photographs of the man to whom they had come to pay their last respects.
"He was my president. I voted for him twice," said Nikolai, a 55-year-old security guard. "He lifted the Iron Curtain for us and he gave us our freedom, a freedom which we now seem to be losing."

Clasping nine red carnations, Natalia Rogojan, a former factory worker, was equally fulsome, calling the late politician her "idol". She recognised, however, that he had not lived up to everyone's expectations, taking the country into the first Chechen war, mismanaging the economy, creating the robber baron oligarchs, and ordering tanks to fire on the Russian White House. "The problem was," she said, "that Russians were so tired of Communism that they wanted everything quickly."

Far from the cathedral, frantically weaving in and out of the traffic, Viktor Gromov, a taxi driver, was less charitable. "What really kills me," he said, "is that Yeltsin gave away our national wealth to a handful of people behind closed doors and now it is they who rule us, not the politicians. That is unforgivable."

Unforgivable or not, Yeltsin will be buried today in a full state funeral. After a service attended by President Vladimir Putin and many of Russia's great and good, his body will be interred at Moscow's Novodevichy Cemetery, traditionally the resting place of writers and composers. Two former US presidents, Bill Clinton and George Bush Senior, are expected to attend, as is the former British prime minister Sir John Major.

[Vulgotha]

Mixed feelings about it. I don't care much for Russia at all, but I do realize he helped reform alot of the bad ways into good ones.



..However, I do respect this man, and what he's done. I do salute him.

[Pr0LiFiX]

A lot of Russians have mixed feelings for the guy.

But he did help liberate the Russian Federation.

[Soviet635]

Mixed feelings about it. I don't care much for Russia at all, but I do realize he helped reform alot of the bad ways into good ones.

That being said, I still dislike Russia intensly. They're a good for nothing nation at the moment, underhanded and weapon dealers' the lot of them.

..However, I do respect this man, and what he's done. I do salute him.

As if America is any better. We boss the world around AND sell our weapons to all who want em. At least Russia keeps her voice limited to Europe for the most part.

I feel nothing for this man. He stood by and watched as Russia was sold out to a handful of greedy businessmen. On top of that, he allowed the disaster that was the first Chechen campaign take place in the way it did. Thank god he appointed Putin. That man knows how to get things done.

That being said, I suppose it's not fair to his family to be cold about his death. I offer them my condolences on their loss.

[Pr0LiFiX]

As if America is any better. We boss the world around AND sell our weapons to all who want em. At least Russia keeps her voice limited to Europe for the most part.
Okay...let's not start bashing America, please.

Can we please stay on topic for once?

[Vulgotha]

Like I said, I have mixed feelings on this, but I do respect the good he's done, and the positive effects he's set into motion.

Zarester (out of curiosity) why'd you make this thread? Or did you just decide to report the news? Typically this kind of stuff is usually overlooked on the forums...(except for the deaths of celebs or etc)

...Strangely I first heard about this on Channel One at my school. Any of you guys have this worthless program?

[Pr0LiFiX]

Both of you shut the hell up.

How dare you take the time to bash America/Russia when someone dies?

You make me sick...

[BingBing]

Yea guys wtf is wrong with you this guy is dead he did good things for his country, and you guys fighting over witch country is better. thats just messed up.

[Vulgotha]

Both of you shut the hell up.

How dare you take the time to bash America/Russia when someone dies?

You make me sick...



I'm sure we do. I'll remove the comment.

For the record, I never attacked Russia out of animosity, I merely said I'm at odds with it, and I was connecting the dots to this man. Having done that, I concluded the man did alot of good and I respected him for it.

It appears however, some people are simply itching for a fight.
My apologies.

[Pr0LiFiX]

If you two want to bicker about countries, don't you dare do it in this thread!

EDIT: Dammit, Vulgotha, you were quick to post! :lol:

[Vulgotha]

I address my mistakes, or in this case potential mistakes. I never intended to spark this fight, Soviet dragged it out and put up his dukes. I didn't anticipate that.

I was merely giving my honest opinion, I never meant to start anything, above all else, I want you to understand that. A conflict was NOT my intention.

I never wanted a fight between America and Russia in this thread.

So please guys.., do not be so swift to Judge.

[DINAMO788]

i'm going to say stfu and that will end any more off topic crap as i have the last word.


yes its a sad day and thousands gathers to pay their respects to his open casket funeral. he brought many greats things to Russian and will be missed.

[Pr0LiFiX]

Dinamo, you and I are probably the only Russians on these message boards...

...next to soviet635, I think. :lol:

[DINAMO788]

soviet isn't russian. check the language thread...theres actually a lot of people who speak russian and i assume they are. i also assume vaan is from his thread about ps3 launch in russia

[Pr0LiFiX]

I'm not saying that only Russian people can mourn the president's death.

[Cyrann]

I'm not saying that only Russian people can mourn the president's death.

I have been to Russia (4 weeks)....

So you made the thread b/c you are Russian... like from Russia or from Russian heritage?

[DINAMO788]

i assume he made it to pay tribute to a great man and everything he did for russia

[Cyrann]

i assume he made it to pay tribute to a great man and everything he did for russia

I am not going to detract from the overall theme, I was merely asking a question about his Russian heritage.

I re-read the first post and I guess I missed that line... it says background!

[Pr0LiFiX]

I am not going to detract from the overall theme, I was merely asking a question about his Russian heritage.

I re-read the first post and I guess I missed that line... it says background!
Yes, I was born in Minsk, Belarus and moved to the States when I was three.

My father personally knew Boris.

[Axe&Hammer]

Why are we mourning a incomptent Russian president?:suspect:

istall bout Putin he's making Russia the 2nd strongest economy in Europe

[Pr0LiFiX]

Why are we mourning a incomptent Russian president?:suspect:

istall bout Putin he's making Russia the 2nd strongest economy in Europe
You know, if you died and someone decided to say bad stuff about you, how would you feel?

You're doing the same thing with Boris.

If you can't show some decency, don't say anything.

[DINAMO788]

prolifix..its not about that. hes just a regular american who will never understand what its like to have true pride for ones country and leaders

[Pr0LiFiX]

prolifix..its not about that. hes just a regular american who will never understand what its like to have true pride for ones country and leaders
I know.

It's better to actually live in a country/nation, firsthand, before you start putting labels on it.

[Axe&Hammer]

You know, if you died and someone decided to say bad stuff about you, how would you feel?
I'd be dead,so I wouldnt know what people were saying,nor would I have feelings.;)

[Pr0LiFiX]

I'd be dead,so I wouldnt know what people were saying,nor would I have feelings.;)
Okay, let me rephrase the question; someone related... :rolleyes:

[DINAMO788]

i was hoping you wouldn't reply and let him leave. so yea anyways. dont come in here badmouthing a man in a thread thats purpose is to mourn and remember

[Pr0LiFiX]

I don't want to argue with an obsessively, politically-correct person, anyways.

:BACK ON TOPIC:

[Axe&Hammer]

He was a so-so leader,why are you mourning him? Why are you mourning somebody that you don't know,what did he do for you,save Russia,pssh

[DINAMO788]

A&H you obviously dont get it so i'll make it clear. we respect him because we know what he has done. there is a different mentality for russians certain people die than for amercians and i knwo you dont understand that which is why i have asked to stop with your mocking comments. please just leave this thread. also please dont reply to me and prolifix please dont reply to him

[Pr0LiFiX]

I won't reply.

Anyways, he pretty much ruined the thread.

[Hippo]

I will admit he did some good things in his first term as president, but in his second term he basically ran the country policitally and economically into the ground. Then in the mist of all of it he just resigned. Heck, they tried to impeach the man several times and he fired his entire cabinet multiple times while president as a way to make people think he was actually doing something to fix all the problems he was creating.

The guy was incredibly unstable, did a horrendous job at bringing the country into economic power while so many other countries thrived during the 90s, and he was constantly in pour health. I don't know why some people are so up in arms about celebrating his life when his actions while president destroyed the lives and futures of most of Russian's population.

Oh, and if you're wondering why Americans aren't mourning so much or rather why they don't care...you might want to look at the fact that during his second term he had very harsh words about America.

[Vulgotha]

I will admit he did some good things in his first term as president, but in his second term he basically ran the country policitally and economically into the ground. Then in the mist of all of it he just resigned. Heck, they tried to impeach the man several times and he fired his entire cabinet multiple times while president as a way to make people think he was actually doing something to fix all the problems he was creating.

The guy was incredibly unstable, did a horrendous job at bringing the country into economic power while so many other countries thrived during the 90s, and he was constantly in pour health. I don't know why some people are so up in arms about celebrating his life when his actions while president destroyed the lives and futures of most of Russian's population.

Oh, and if you're wondering why Americans aren't mourning so much or rather why they don't care...you might want to look at the fact that during his second term he had very harsh words about America.


Careful man, I said somthing remotely similar and got burned. (Though I do agree with you)

..Seems like axe n' Hammer went on a crusade....

[Pr0LiFiX]

Careful man, I said somthing remotely similar and got burned. Your treading on thin ice. Just give your respects or don't, there's no need to make ripples here... Even if it is the truth.
Yeah, Hippo, why don't you just make a "Let's bash political figures" thread, instead?

[Soviet635]

What I said before was not meant to start all this crap. I don't know why I wrote that the way I did...I'll remove it from my post if you'd like,*I just don't take kindly to people smearing Russia when the West does the same thing.

R.I.P. Mr. Yeltsin.


*I don't even know why, I don't have an ounce of Russian blood in me

[Pr0LiFiX]

What I said before was not meant to start all this crap. I don't know why I wrote that the way I did...I'll remove it from my post if you'd like,*I just don't take kindly to people smearing Russia when the West does the same thing.

R.I.P. Mr. Yeltsin.


*I don't even know why, I don't have an ounce of Russian blood in me
You don't have to remove anything.

Don't worry about it. :wink:

[Hippo]

Careful man, I said somthing remotely similar and got burned. (Though I do agree with you)

..Seems like axe n' Hammer went on a crusade....

Like I care (no offense), the guy was a horrible president and one of the main reasons Russia is an economic mess still to this day. The best thing he did while president was resign since it stopped the bleedy that was Russia's decent into complete economical ruin.

Lets face it, Russia/USSR isn't known for its excellent leaders. Sure Stalin kicked Hilter's *** but he also killed upwards to 60 million of his own people. I guess that's a good reason to applaud Boris, at least he didn't wipe out a large percentage of his own population...hip-hip horray!

[DINAMO788]

are you forgetting alexander? catherine? lenin was also a great man with true vision. i dont think anyone at the time could have predicted how communism in prattice is the opposite of it in theory. we took a different path and are rebuilding...and not doing a bad job at that. you dont know anything about russians, russian culture, or russian mentalty to keep you assumptions and comments to yourself and stay out of this thread if your going to mock a dead man

[Axe&Hammer]

Yeah, Hippo, why don't you just make a "Let's bash political figures" thread, instead?
Hmm seems like everyone of your threads is bashing one political figure;)

Sure Stalin kicked Hilter's *** but he also killed upwards to 60 million of his own people. !
Boris killed his own people remember the first Chechen war?


are you forgetting alexander? catherine? lenin was also a great man with true vision. i dont think anyone at the time could have predicted how communism in prattice is the opposite of it in theory. we took a different path and are rebuilding...and not doing a bad job at that. you dont know anything about russians, russian culture, or russian mentalty to keep you assumptions and comments to yourself and stay out of this thread if your going to mock a dead man
Take a deep breath,take a sip of vodka and relax:p j/k

Boris Yeltsin's presidency was a period marked by widespread corruption, economic collapse, and enormous political and social problems. By the time he left office, Yeltsin was a deeply unpopular figure in Russia, with an approval rating as low as 2%.He declared war on the Chechen's,killing many civilians. He threatened NATO during the Kosovo War,and was a well know alcoholic.Putin is a far better leader than him,and he can kick the *** of any world leader

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Vladimir_Putin_martial_arts.jpg
that's Putin with them mad Judo skillz

[Hippo]

are you forgetting alexander? catherine? lenin was also a great man with true vision.

Oh please, if you have to go back one to two hundred years to name a great leader in Russia you've got a problem. Sure there were a lot of great Russian Emperors, but come on now, that Russia is just a distant shadow of present day Russia.

Lenin is the only good leader Russia has had post Industrial Revolution, though one could argue it wasn't a great era for the country anyways since it was filled with civil war and revolutions. But yeah, Lenin did a lot to make Russia a powerful country, then Lenin messed up its relations with other countries followed by a series of bad presidents (Boris included).


i dont think anyone at the time could have predicted how communism in prattice is the opposite of it in theory. we took a different path and are rebuilding...and not doing a bad job at that

Yeah, now you're not doing a bad job at it, but while Boris was around you were. And what do you mean "no one could have predicted", pretty much the rest of the world predicted the problems with a communist government.


you dont know anything about russians, russian culture, or russian mentalty to keep you assumptions and comments to yourself and stay out of this thread if your going to mock a dead man

I know a lot more than you think, and just because your family is from there or whatever doesn't mean you know all and I know nothing.

[Vulgotha]

I both agree and disagree with that statement that nobody knew Communism wouldn't work. It really depends on who you were, what your world view was, and what position you were in.

Communism was from the start, based off a differant concept of Human nature, and thusly it failed. Marx believed that people were naturally "Good" or "Decent" and could eventually live in a perfect society, pure harmony. Utopia.

What however, he failed to realize was that no, humans are not naturally "Good" or "Decent" its not in our nature to be so. This all depends on your world view, those who are typically of atheist backround etc, tend to believe Marx's ideas as plausible. This is why Marx himself was a huge fan of Charles Darwin, and sent him a 1st edition (with a foreward from himself) of Das Kapital (The Capital) to Darwin...(connect the dots there about why)

Those of a Judeo\Christian (and some other key religions) viewpoint, understand that man could never exist in such a way: No man would ever relinquish power in a country to create a perfect society. People will naturally be competetive with each other (Thus why Socialist Markets are a failure, thats really why China is opening up and nabbed Hong Kong).*

*I add this ^ because its very very true, not just because of my religious views and ideals. Its also important to realize many or most of society back then held religious views (mostly Christian in Europe and the young America)


Adam Smith pretty much invented the idea of Capitalism 100 years before Karl Marx walked on the scene, (nobody listened ot him of course, everybody was nuts about Mercantelism). However, when Marx was blossoming into the Humanistic Philosopher that he was, he grew angry at Adam Smith's design for an economy and government style, because it was "unfair" to the proletariat (Worker class).

^That was somewhat true in Marx's time, as it was the Industrial Revolution. And.. well its well established that was a pretty crappy time to be a worker. However, life is naturally unfair, its the way the world is. By attempting to create an Equilibrium in society (in every aspect, his ultimate goal) he must take everything, from everybody, and redisperse it.

He didn't like how there was the "Elite" of society (Wealthy) and the poor. He believed everybody should have jobs, and that the Rich merely enacted vampirism on all those below and even around them of equal status. (Competition).

We now know however, that the rich create the jobs for whence the poor can earn an income. The Rich are very much needed.

We also now know that having poor is universal, yet Capitalism creates a middle class, and reduces the poor levels. <So your correct on this point, this was an unknown at that time, as Russia truly was Communism\Socialisms first real time in action.>

However, it was already understood and accepted that Competition bread better quality, productivity and efficiency. But I suppose one could say nobody knew the opposite was true of the Communist economic system.

Ultimately all he achieved was "Equal" poverty for everybody. But, everybody was employed right?

In conclusion, I think that the flaws of Communism were somewhat evident even from the get go. Some were not, of course, but even at that time, I think if you understood the basic principles of economy and human nature, you could discern this would not work.


EDIT: I thought you might say that, I merely added my two cents on communism out of boredom and clarity. It has nothing to do with attempting to insult Boris or disgrace his name. My past incident was unintentional and immediatly rectified after recieving scrutiny.

As for it being off topic, it wasn't. You guys mentioned it, additionally you were already discussing things off topic.

Aside from this, I apologize for any disrespect I may have conveyed unintentionally, it was not my aim to do so. I respect him for the right he's done, even if I may disagree on how effective or "Good" he was. Please understand.

[DINAMO788]

in conclusion we are not debating communism. i've reported this thread. is you are not here to pay hommage to a dead president, please leave. you have nothing to gain by trying to disgrace his name. i dont want rebuttles just please no longer reply

[Hippo]

in conclusion we are not debating communism. i've reported this thread. is you are not here to pay hommage to a dead president, please leave. you have nothing to gain by trying to disgrace his name. i dont want rebuttles just please no longer reply

that's rediculas, this is a discussion forum not a "paying hommage" board. Some people didn't like the guy, but just because it doesn't sit well with you doesn't mean we have to be quiet.

[Uncool]

Guy's keep it clean and civil, whether you agree with this or not is not so much of concern in preventing people from insulting one another. Again I ask of you to acknowledge this person (topic) and not get into pointless debate if your not willing to keep it in the context of the topic and keeping it civil if by elaborating on it.

[ps3954]

yeah i heard about this in my geography class

fell bad for the guy

[Pr0LiFiX]

Man, no one in my school has been talking about him at all. :roll:

I guess that's because I had history class last semester.

[Axe&Hammer]

Man, no one in my school has been talking about him at all. :roll:

No true American cares about a foreign ex-head of state.

[DINAMO788]

yes, true amercians are oblivious about news from the rest of the world. americans dont need to worry about the world. they need to worry about america. the two are clearly not connected in any way

[Axe&Hammer]

yes, true amercians are oblivious about news from the rest of the world. americans dont need to worry about the world. they need to worry about america. the two are clearly not connected in any way

Yeah Yeah

I think we all get it that you think that,Americans are nothing but a bunch of overweight NASCAR fans that don't know a darn thing about the world. :roll:

[Vulgotha]

yes, true amercians are oblivious about news from the rest of the world. americans dont need to worry about the world. they need to worry about america. the two are clearly not connected in any way

This statement is ridiculious. What was the Korean and Vietnam war then? Containment. I'd even argue that Desert Storm and our current conflict is due to the fact that we fully understand that the world is a global economy, and everything is connected. Now the people way over in the middle east (Radicals) can't figure it out. If they blow up our Trade Centers and it achieved the result they had planned (collapse our economy) suddenly they'd find their countries worse off then they were before. Why? everything is connected. We understand this, and thats why we formed G8 to combat OPEC. (as an example).

Besides, they're teens. I doubt most teenagers nowadays (except for myself and a select few) really care about the world at this point in time. Most are consumed with selfish matters.

[DINAMO788]

the majority of amercians dont know whats going on in the world. and i was mocking A&H about his self insulting comment

[Axe&Hammer]

the majority of Amercians don't know whats going on in the world.
The majority of all people don't know whats going on in the world:-|


and i was mocking A&H about his self insulting commentok

[Hippo]

the majority of amercians dont know whats going on in the world. and i was mocking A&H about his self insulting comment

that's a dumb statement, the majority of the world doesn't know what's going on in the world.

[Pr0LiFiX]

No true American cares about a foreign ex-head of state.
No, because teenagers have better things to do than discuss politics on a message board. :wink:

[Soviet635]

No true American cares about a foreign ex-head of state.

So...I'm not a "true" American when I care very much so about what happens in 2008 when Putin steps down? I'm more interested in what's going to happen there than what's gonna happen hear at the same time when Bush finally leaves office; does that mean I'm a traitor or something?

[Axe&Hammer]

So...I'm not a "true" American when I care very much so about what happens in 2008 when Putin steps down? I'm more interested in what's going to happen there than what's gonna happen hear at the same time when Bush finally leaves office; does that mean I'm a traitor or something?
Yes,you are a traitor,and you must be hung by your thumbs and beaten with flaming sticks.:-|

[DINAMO788]

as much as i partially agree with you, i'd rather have an domestically apathetic citizen who cares about world affairs over a "rough necked rootin tootin" uber-patriot whos too obsessed with his own country to care or even take a look at the bigger picture.

[Axe&Hammer]

i'd rather have an domestically apathetic citizen who cares about world affairs

So you support globalism?:suspect:

over a "rough necked rootin tootin" uber-patriot whos too obsessed with his own country to care or even take a look at the bigger picture.America is the only picture worth looking at;)

[DINAMO788]

im not turning this into our own personal argument but #1. what i said was not about globalism and you cant split it up, you need to take it as one thing.
#2. America is not alone in its existance on this planet, the age of only focusing on ourselves is over, we cannot do that anymore, get with the times. America's interest should usually come first, but not without examining the effect on other nations/world

[Soviet635]

Yes,you are a traitor,and you must be hung by your thumbs and beaten with flaming sticks.:-|

Lol...sounds like fun.

I don't care about what happens here because...well, I don't have to. Bush will leave (thank god), somebody else will get elected, and nothing much will change, America will remain pretty much the same. Russia is a far more interesting picture to me because so much could happen when Putin leaves.

America is the only picture worth looking at:wink:That kind of thinking is one reason America is hated.
We are not the only thing worth paying attention to in this world. There are many great things worth giving your attention to all over the globe.

[Axe&Hammer]

Lol...sounds like fun.
It is,afterwards we have a BBQ on the beach.

I don't care about what happens here because...well, I don't have to. Bush will leave (thank god), somebody else will get elected, and nothing much will change, America will remain pretty much the same. Russia is a far more interesting picture to me because so much could happen when Putin leaves.
When Putin is no longer in power,somebody best be elected with the same economic strategy.

That kind of thinking is one reason America is hated.
We are not the only thing worth paying attention to in this world. There are many great things worth giving your attention to all over the globe.
I was kidding.

[Pr0LiFiX]

Aw, f*** it!

If no one is going to pay any respects, for that matter, someone lock this thread.