My views on the War in Iraq

[Pr0LiFiX]

I think I speak for all of the liberals in the States when I say that this war in Iraq makes no sense. When Saddam tried to kill George W. Bush's father (I heard this on the radio), Bush vowed, when he came into office, that he would take down Saddam. Well, Saddam is dead and we are still fighting this war in Iraq. Recently, there was an anti-American protest in Iraq, that basically spelled out one message, "Americans, go home!" But stupid, self-centered politicians like McCain and army generals say that Iraq welcomes the Americans. That's complete bull! And another thing, Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. What I mean to say is that Iraq had no relations to the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon. It was al-Qaeda! Iraq has no relations with al-Qaeda! But stupid, self-centered politicians like Cheney think otherwise. This is why we should never put a Republican into the State of the Union anymore. We need to be more responsibe with what we do.

Let the Sunnis and Shiites battle out their own territory, by themselves.

Iraq doesn't want us in their country! Get it?

And another thing, 9/11 did not change the world. Africa still suffers from famine, AIDs has not been cured, and we are still creating and fighting wars. Maybe people should look at the big picture before saying that the world has changed.

Just a little rant I wanted to get out. ;)

[Axe&Hammer]

I think I speak for all of the liberals in the States when I say that this war in Iraq makes no sense.
Nice thesis :roll:


When Saddam tried to kill George W. Bush's father (I heard this on the radio)
allegedly

Bush vowed, when he came into office, that he would take down Saddam.link please:-|


Well, Saddam is dead and we are still fighting this war in Iraq.
So we should pack up and leave?

Recently, there was an anti-American protest in Iraq, that basically spelled out one message, "Americans, go home!"That was just one of many factions in post-Baath Iraq


But stupid, self-centered politicians like McCain and army generals say that Iraq welcomes the Americans. 1.John McCain isnt stupid,nor self centered,like all good Reps he is home state focused
2.Military Commanders say Iraqi's welcomed them,and in many places still do,Baghdad=/=all of Iraq

And another thing, Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Yes,but we declared war on terror,that includes nations that sponser terrorist organizations

What I mean to say is that Iraq had no relations to the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon. I dont think anybody is denying that.


It was al-Qaeda! Hence are invasion of Afghanistan

Iraq has no relations with al-Qaeda!But it had relationships with:
People's Mujahedin of Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Mujahedin_of_Iran)
Arab Liberation Front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Liberation_Front)
Palestine Liberation Front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Front)
Abu Nidal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah_-_the_Revolutionary_Council)




But stupid, self-centered politicians like Cheney think otherwise. Name calling:-|


This is why we should never put a Republican into the State of the Union anymore.Just shut up,Republicans are just as capable as Democrats,and just because you don't like Bush or what other Republicans think,doesn't mean they don't get to have control over this nation.


We need to be more responsible with what we do.JFK got us into Vietnam,should be more responsible with our young Democrats

Let the Sunnis and Shiites battle out their own territory, by themselves.We started this civil war,we need to help the government remain stable,but they are becoming like South Vietnam,weak and lazy.


Iraq doesn't want us in their country! Get it?This isn't a matter of want,in 20 years they will be a 1st world nation,and have democracy,you must bleed sometimes.

And another thing, 9/11 did not change the world.Yes it did,it woke us up,and America likes her naps

Africa still suffers from faminethats life


AIDs has not been curedAnd thats a bad thing?,AIDS is the one of the only things keeping man in check.(no offense to anyone that has been hurt by AIDS)

we are still creating and fighting wars. Never going to stop.

Maybe people should look at the big picture before saying that the world has changed.maybe you should stop being a classic liberal and realize that moderation is the key,America will fight in at least one war every decade till you die,and not all republicans are speech slurring write offs.

[Sventax]

Hmmm as a European It has come to my attention whenever a republican gets power..the US get hostile..
Every time there is a war going on...republicans are the one who initiated this.

And for us...how did the world change???? it changed for the american's and the Iraqis... for the rest of the world oil got more expensive , by this a lot of other products.

Bush has been willingly convincing people that the world changed...and threatening Europe...if you are not with us, you are against us..... now what kinda fool says something like that... "Hitler"

If they wanted saddam they could have done this 10 years ago...but they left him. oil was cheap so they could still get oil for the right price...
And Iraq has been becoming a threat to Israel..hey lets makeup an excuse to cripple them. So we can steal their oil and keep them weak.

Yes Saddam had to go...but now there is no strong leader that can unite the arabs...owww w8 the Iranien president....yeah a smart guy....who doesn't give a rats *** what the US has to say...... lets think of a way to cripple them also....... lets cripple all country surrounding Israel that can be a threat.

In no way other country's can be a threat to another country unless you start a spark that ignites. If you are Civilized like the democrats you will have a lot more peace on this planet.. I love the democrats in the US... here in Europe we feel that if the republicans come to power something bad is going to happen......and correct me if I am wrong..

I love that pimping Bill Clinton...he was a great president..

Te US won't get out of Iraq untill they manage to cover the 1 trillion dollar cost they made by invading Iraq....so I think there will be less oil in Iraq if they depart.

[Lord Arklon]

My 2 cents.

Nice thesis :roll:

Ditto

allegedly, link please:neutral:

I wouldn't mind seeing a supporting source on this as well, although I have seen Bush speak on this(although jokingly it seemed).

So we should pack up and leave?

I think you missed the point a bit. There were many reasons for going into Iraq. Some of them were legit and taken care of(Saddam and his regime), while others were complete bullcrap, and proven to be so as the conflict escalated(WMD's...). Whatever the case, we've been there long enough to have accomplished whatever mission we were originally assigned to complete. We've helped them rebuild, helped them establish a new government, schools, and the training of their police and military forces. You can't hold someone's hand forever you know...why don't you declare why you think it's so necessary for us to be there?

That was just one of many factions in post-Baath Iraq

Surely you jest...regardless of this, there's more than just a simple faction that wants America out of there you know. Although the news doesn't portray it nearly enough, many of the Iraqi nationals are very grateful for what we've done over there, but at the same time, they want their independence just like us. Like I said earlier, you can't hold someone's hand forever, and nobody wants their hand held forever, either.

1.John McCain isnt stupid,nor self centered,like all good Reps he is home state focused
2.Military Commanders say Iraqi's welcomed them,and in many places still do,Baghdad=/=all of Iraq

You (in a similar parallel to whom you respond)have a knack for filtering in only what supports your p.o.v.

There's two sides to every story. Did you also know that nationals as young as adolescents and small children "shoot the bird" at our troops as they pass on convoys?

Sure, many do appreciate us, but many dislike us as well, don't get it twisted.

Yes,but we declared war on terror,that includes nations that sponser terrorist organizations

Ok, this war on terror business is PR. You can't just declare war on "terror". That would be the equivalent of Mike Tyson calling out bankruptcy for a rematch. It just doesn't work that way. Besides, there's plenty of nations who house terrorists...proving that they sponsor them is another thing, but those are there as well. SEVERAL of the surrounding countries house terrorists, and we're in no hurry to mess with them. Did you know that the vast majority of terrorists in Iraq aren't even from the country? The domestic terrorists in Iraq try not to hurt their own(in some cases anyway), and will actually engage foreign terrorists(who couldn't care less who they kill) if identified as such. If Iraq was the one and only country who harbored terrorists, that may be a legit excuse, but that's not the way the world goes round in this day and age.

I dont think anybody is denying that.;

Hence are invasion of Afghanistan

True, no argument there.

But it had relationships with:
People's Mujahedin of Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Mujahedin_of_Iran)
Arab Liberation Front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Liberation_Front)
Palestine Liberation Front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Front)
Abu Nidal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah_-_the_Revolutionary_Council)

ditto

Name calling

If the shoe fits...

just shut up,Republicans are just as capable as Democrats,and just because you don't like Bush or what other Republicans think,doesn't mean they don't get to have control over this nation.

JFK got us into Vietnam,should be more responsible with our young Democrats

Agreed on both counts. Anyone from any party is capable of running the country.

We started this civil war,we need to help the government remain stable,but they are becoming like South Vietnam,weak and lazy.

We started it? We may have had something to do with it, but tensions have been flaring in this region long before we got there.

This isn't a matter of want,in 20 years they will be a 1st world nation,and have democracy,you must bleed sometimes.

If it's not a matter of want, tell me what the needs are then, and who are they most important and relevant to, us, or them?

Yes it did,it woke us up,and America likes her naps

Quite right...it's just too bad that not everyone opened their eyes when they woke up...

thats life

That's a very callous and hypocritical thing to say considering how adamant you are about us occupying another nation. If you were as righteous as you feign, then why not help the whole world? Iraq wasn't the biggest catastrophe man has ever seen, why should we stop there? Or are you like those that will only jump when the master says so? You think we should be a police force? Fine, but don't you dare turn a blind eye to some of the equally real and tragic situations happening around the world.

I find it funny how so many people think war with Iraq and possibly Iran are such necessary courses of action, but 7 years ago at the turn of the century, there wasn't exactly a nation wide petition going around.

The emperor is really loving his new clothes, ladies and gentlemen, and his empire apparently favors the same fashions he does, no matter how spontaneously he may decide to change them. Too bad nobody wants to listen to the children this time around...

Never going to stop.


And who decides that? With attitudes like that, you're absolutely right...if you only knew how the grass was on another side...you might sing a different tune.

[Axe&Hammer]

Hmmm as a European It has come to my attention whenever a republican gets power..the US get hostile..
Every time there is a war going on...republicans are the one who initiated this.



WWI-Democrat
WWII-Democrat
Korea-Democrat
Vietnam-Democrat
Gulf War-Republican
Iraq/War on Terror-Republican

:roll:



If you are Civilized like the democrats you will have a lot more peace on this planet.. I love the democrats in the US... here in Europe we feel that if the republicans come to power something bad is going to happen......and correct me if I am wrong..
lol,man you are so funny

[/quote]


why don't you declare why you think it's so necessary for us to be there?
We invaded,and occupied the nation in the name of freedom,and we shouldn't leave until a stable democratic government and nation in up and running,



Surely you jest...regardless of this, there's more than just a simple faction that wants America out of there you know. Although the news doesn't portray it nearly enough, many of the Iraqi nationals are very grateful for what we've done over there, but at the same time, they want their independence just like us. Like I said earlier, you can't hold someone's hand forever, and nobody wants their hand held forever, either.Sorry a faction is a group with perspective on something,I didnt mean a group of rebels.





There's two sides to every story. Did you also know that nationals as young as adolescents and small children "shoot the bird" at our troops as they pass on convoys?
Yep,and then there are those who thank the troops everyday.




Ok, this war on terror business is PR. You can't just declare war on "terror". That would be the equivalent of Mike Tyson calling out bankruptcy for a rematch. It just doesn't work that way. Besides, there's plenty of nations who house terrorists...proving that they sponsor them is another thing, but those are there as well. SEVERAL of the surrounding countries house terrorists, and we're in no hurry to mess with them. Did you know that the vast majority of terrorists in Iraq aren't even from the country? The domestic terrorists in Iraq try not to hurt their own(in some cases anyway), and will actually engage foreign terrorists(who couldn't care less who they kill) if identified as such. If Iraq was the one and only country who harbored terrorists, that may be a legit excuse, but that's not the way the world goes round in this day and age.Nations hit by Islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/da/WOT_map4a.PNG/800px-WOT_map4a.PNG

Theaters in this war on terror:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terrorism_-_Theaters_of_operation

This is hardly a PR move.



That's a very callous and hypocritical thing to say considering how adamant you are about us occupying another nation. If you were as righteous as you feign, then why not help the whole world? Iraq wasn't the biggest catastrophe man has ever seen, why should we stop there? Or are you like those that will only jump when the master says so? You think we should be a police force? Fine, but don't you dare turn a blind eye to some of the equally real and tragic situations happening around the world.Famine is the fault of the individual nation,yes The US could invade every nation in Africa,set up a democratic government and feed the people,but restoring democracy one step at a time is a better aproach

Iraq was a threat to our interests in the middle east,we took it down,now its up to us to make it a better place,but some people don't like the fact that people die in war,and we have created wars over resources and influence before,just with better PR cover stories.

but 7 years ago at the turn of the century, there wasn't exactly a nation wide petition going around.[/quote]
In my circle there was,North Korea was on there too.

[Azure]

We invaded,and occupied the nation in the name of freedom

Love it...

Love your sig too :D

[Pr0LiFiX]

None of you understand what I said about McCain.

John McCain recently went to Iraq, with lots of soldiers and helicopters, all the while, he was inside this freaking humvee that the reporters described as a "submarine driving on land" or something, and he has the balls to tell the media that, "it was like you can stroll right through to the market". And when the attacks were reported the next day in Iraq, where a bunch of schoolkids got murdered by terrorists or whatever, McCain said that he retracted what he said but also added that saying what he said wouldn't make it fun! What an *********! He has the guts to say to the media, after his visit to Iraq, when the next day a bunch of school kids and others got murdered by extremists, says that if he didn't say what he said about his trip to Iraq, it wouldn't be as fun; also adding the fact that, during his trip, he had all of these soldiers and military vehicles, along with him, at the same time when the army is suffering at it's breaking point because of the amount of soldiers that are already on their 4th trip back to Iraq.

[StruggleWithin]

If a democrat enters office, we will still be there..it will take a while before we leave..

[Pr0LiFiX]

We invaded,and occupied the nation in the name of freedom

That's a pretty poor excuse for why we went to war.

Freedom?

It sounds like you should get your head out of Bush's a**, in my opinion.

The Iraqis are telling us to leave, so let's do it, already.

[StruggleWithin]

For a 16yo you are very politically charged..I'm in the military and not that amped up..

[USAF]

They're not leaving Iraq anytime soon at all. At some point they might pull abunch of troops out, but there will always be troops there for a very long time.

[Pr0LiFiX]

For a 16yo you are very politically charged..I'm in the military and not that amped up..
Yeah, I listen to public radio; and the most dangerous liberal in America's radio talk show.

[Axe&Hammer]

That's a pretty poor excuse for why we went to war.

Freedom from tyranny is not a good excuse for war....




It sounds like you should get your head out of Bush's a**, in my opinion.
I do not support Bush in any way,I feel his handling of this war has been wrong,hopefully somebody with a plan of action will come into power,and by plan of action I don't mean leave.

The Iraqis are telling us to leave, so let's do it, already.
Sometimes you must give people what they need,not what they want.

[momomike3]

Prolifix you think our army is at the breaking point? You obviously don't understand how vast our armed forces are. We are stretched more than in peace time... obviously. You are a dangerous person. All you listen to is NPR and liberal propoganda. I'm very conservative and I still watch CNN and MSNBC to hear the other side of things. Watch some O'Reilly factor kid. You might learn what a fact is.

[UnReaL]

WWI-Democrat
WWII-Democrat
Korea-Democrat
Vietnam-Democrat
Gulf War-Republican
Iraq/War on Terror-Republican

WWI and WWII were the last "REAL" war that the U.S was actually involved in. The U.S entered these wars for a reason, and WWII Forced U.S into the war. U.S was only supplying equipment and aid to the Europeans, but Pearl Harbor incident forced them to declare war.

Korea was never a "War", as congress never declared war. It was a "Police Act" that the President has the power to enforce. Meaning he can send certain amounts of troops and has certain days without the permission of Congress.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War
-Bill Clinton used this "Police Act" when he was in power against Iraq.


Iraq was a threat to our interests in the middle east,we took it down,now its up to us to make it a better place,but some people don't like the fact that people die in war,and we have created wars over resources and influence before,just with better PR cover stories.
-So what Interest did troops die in Vietnam and Somalia for?

Gulf War: Iraq was hurting our interest by invading Kuwait. Instead of an invasion, U.S bombed the crap out of Iraq, and without the cost of any American Lives.

Afghanistan: Reason why the U.S is there. 9/11.

Iraq: So called "WMD's". So the United States gets to decide what WMDs are?

What is a WMD:
-Nuclear Bomb
-Missiles
-Grenade
-A gun?
Anyone remember the L.A shootout? Ak-47 looked like a weapon of mass destruction. If you don't think it did, then you better read up on the lives changed, and damage done.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9703/01/bank.shootout/

U.S entered the war for a few reason.
1) to take out Saddam
2) For Oil.
-Bush goes onto say that the U.S needs to find other recourses of fuel, but here we are in Iraq over Oil. McCain and his company being the ones drilling for oil. Any interest there? Money would be a good reason.
http://issues2000.org/George_W__Bush.htm
-Go down to find the George Bush on Enegry and Fuel.

Sometimes you must give people what they need,not what they want.
You can't be serious about this statement.
-Like how Blacks were forced into Slavery? There were "given" work, without pay and an added bonus of cruel punishment.
-Like how Hitler "Gave" Germans an idea to murder Millions of Jews, just so he could fuel wars to take over countries.

If you don't have the backing of the people you are trying to help, than their is serious trouble. Somalia would be the best example.

Whether its Democrats or Republicans, it will not matter. Wars will always happen, innocent live will be destroyed, and one day if someone pushes a button that releases a Nuclear Warhead, than the world will be in chaos.

It may be North Korea, Iran, India, Pakistan, and any country that has Nuclear capability.

We talk about Global Warming, and how the world is dying and other disasters. But what we fail to realize is that humanity could be the one that destroys humanity.

Peace, wish it actually meant anything.

[Axe&Hammer]

WWI and WWII were the last "REAL" war that the U.S was actually involved in. The U.S entered these wars for a reason, and WWII Forced U.S into the war. U.S was only supplying equipment and aid to the Europeans, but Pearl Harbor incident forced them to declare war.

Korea was never a "War", as congress never declared war. It was a "Police Act" that the President has the power to enforce. Meaning he can send certain amounts of troops and has certain days without the permission of Congress.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War
Wow,N Korea invaded S Korea,we joined the war with the UN but in reality only the US and Britain has sizable forces in Korea and we fought the Chinese and N Koreans in a War







-So what Interest did troops die in Vietnam and Somalia for?
We went to Vietnam to support an Ally and we went to Somalia with the UN to keep the nation stable,which failed.






Iraq: So called "WMD's". So the United States gets to decide what WMDs are?

What is a WMD:
-Nuclear Bomb
-Missiles
-Grenade
-A gun?
Iraq had and had used chemical weapons which are WMDs,but there attempts to get nuclear weapons are dubious,but at a time they did have a nuclear program.





You can't be serious about this statement.
-Like how Blacks were forced into Slavery? There were "given" work, without pay and an added bonus of cruel punishment.
-Like how Hitler "Gave" Germans an idea to murder Millions of Jews, just so he could fuel wars to take over countries.
Did slaves need force labor? No Did some Germans need to vent there hate on a minority no,don't compare freedom to cruelty.:-|


We talk about Global Warming, and how the world is dying and other disasters.
The world isn't dying.

[UnReaL]

We went to Vietnam to support an Ally and we went to Somalia with the UN to keep the nation stable,which failed.

We went to Iraq for what?
-For Saddam? For Oil? For WMD's? For some political reason be-known to us? U.S is there, and the troops are in the middle of a Civil War. Politician could tell us anything, but troops who are actually over there are the ones I believe. Saddam is dead, Iraq is "Free", a government is being installed, yet people are still dying. Who knows, maybe those people need a dictator like Saddam? Until there is a "SOLID" reason for actually being over there, then this war should never have happened.

BTW its not called a "War" anymore as the War was declared over by Bush on the Aircraft Carrier. By not calling it a "War" the troops do not extra war time pay. Someone here is or was a soldier.......is it true? Friends have told me this that were soldiers. I've seen a picture from a friend that was there showing a guy that got his head crushed in half by a .50 caliber gun. It looked like a Watermelon just splattered.....(Sorry if its too graphical for some of you).

Iraq had and had used chemical weapons which are WMDs,but there attempts to get nuclear weapons are dubious,but at a time they did have a nuclear program.
So, your classification for WMD's are Nuclear weapons, and Chemical weapons? The U.S, you, or me can classify anything thats a WMD. But from what I've seen and read, anything that takes lives is a WMD.

The world isn't dying.
The world may not be dying, but the people living on it will. Thats if you believe in Global Warming and all the "good" stuff.

Anyways:
You have your opinions, and I have mines. Like I heard on a radio show (he is a sports caster). Changing someone views, whether its political or anything is difficult. When we actually live it, then our views on things have a greater emphasis. Don't think you've been to Iraq. Neither have I, so its just our views on one subject.

I'll leave it alone, because this topic could go on and on.....Peace.

[Pr0LiFiX]

Prolifix you think our army is at the breaking point? You obviously don't understand how vast our armed forces are. We are stretched more than in peace time... obviously. You are a dangerous person. All you listen to is NPR and liberal propoganda. I'm very conservative and I still watch CNN and MSNBC to hear the other side of things. Watch some O'Reilly factor kid. You might learn what a fact is.
Because of the surge, we're sending troops back to Iraq; some who are already on their fourth trip already.

Go buy a back-issue of TIME and read about the U.S. army.

Yeah, I watch CNN too, but that doesn't mean everything on that news station makes sense.

I'm sorry if what I listen to makes me a dangerous person.

[momomike3]

You don't understand. I'm saying it is dangerous because you do not expose yourself to a conservative viewpoint of things. CNN is very liberal. The only MAIN conservative news you're going to get is Foxnews and the Wall Street Journal.

[Axe&Hammer]

Because of the surge, we're sending troops back to Iraq; some who are already on their fourth trip already.


Actually the surge will men more men in the field,which translates to less combat hours per solider which means they are less likely to die.:-| Also the surge is badly needed,we need a dedicated force to train the Iraqi government and one to police the nation,we don't need another 20 year civil war.

[Vulgotha]

I think we should be there, if there was a draft I'd have no problem going over there either.

[Axe&Hammer]

I think we should be there, if there was a draft I'd have no problem going over there either.
Me too,I'm gonna be in the AFROTC during college,then its off to the USAF for me.

[Pr0LiFiX]

Actually the surge will men more men in the field,which translates to less combat hours per solider which means they are less likely to die.:-| Also the surge is badly needed,we need a dedicated force to train the Iraqi government and one to police the nation,we don't need another 20 year civil war.
Yeah, but the spots that the Army can't fill up will go to the soldiers who've already been to Iraq.

[Axe&Hammer]

Yeah, but the spots that the Army can't fill up will go to the soldiers who've already been to Iraq.
Yes,thats what we get for having an all volunteer military.If only we had a draft to fill up the spots of our veterans.

[Pr0LiFiX]

We haven't had a draft since the Vietnam War.

But the war in Iraq is just like the one in Vietnam.

[Axe&Hammer]

We haven't had a draft since the Vietnam War.
And we need one.


But the war in Iraq is just like the one in Vietnam.
No,not at all,in Vietnam we had a clear cut enemy, North Vietnam and other communist forces in the south,we engaged two different types of war in one distinct warzone,one against a nation and one against a rebel group,in Iraq we are trying to police the nation as it rebuilds,but people in Iraq has seen this moment in time as a time to rise up and battle their historical enemies,their political enemies and us.

[StruggleWithin]

Man I hope they don't start a draft for the sake of those that don't like war. I'm already in the Air Force and been to Iraq, not a very nice country..

[Pr0LiFiX]

It's not like Iraq is asking us to invade them.

There are so many misguided comments on the war, such as...

"We should bomb Iraq for attacking us!"

Uh, wrong. It was al-Qaeda who attacked us, not Iraq.

It's sad because in my english class, we were talking about how Saddam got hanged for his war crimes and whatnot and this girl was like...

"What? Who got hanged?"
"Saddam Hussein."
"What? Why?"
"Are you kidding? For all of the innocent Iraqis he killed!"

It's stupid how people are so misguided in things, especially current events.

[Axe&Hammer]

It's not like Iraq is asking us to invade them.

We already invaded Iraq,and some people want us to stay.



"We should bomb Iraq for attacking us!"
2001, much?:-|

[majinvegeta]

We already invaded Iraq,and some people want us to stay.

2001, much?:-|

What the hell are you talking about, such a minor group wants you to stay, and you say ok.

Just because America has the power to fight, doesn't give it the right to do so. Who said America can go around and police the world? who says they should? its ridiculous.

The primary reason Bush started this war was because he claimed Iraq has weapons of mass destructions. First of all, any sane man knows that Iraq does not have ICBM's. Without Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles, how the f*ck do you expect those missiles to reach America? what missiles Iraq did have were acceptable under the UN Laws, those that were longer range, UN told Iraq to destroy and it complied. UN were doing their research, they went everywhere looking for missiles, they found nothing. Now its been at least 2 years since the war, and still no sign of missiles. Now they make a new excuse, they claim Suddam killed millions and millions of Iraqi's. Yet they find only 4 - 5 dead bodies to sentence him for. Fine, thats acceptable, if he killed people, he is punishable of course. But you would send out a complete army, spend over 22 billion dollars, to attack a country because this GOVERNMENT killed 4 - 5 people? ridiculous.

This war happened with $$$ in mind, they wanted OIL and thats what they got. They wanted to rid Suddam from the country and establish their own government, a government that would be a puppet, so that way they can do things their way down there.

This is not a legitimate war, this is definitely against UN laws as well, even if Suddam had nuclear missiles, under UN laws, it does not mean you can declare war on the country and overthrow the government.

What America has done is extremely bad, and now it almost seems as if their going to split into two. Shiite and Sunni are continuing to battle, to fight for power.

What should America do in this situation? come with a honest apology, apologize to the people of Iraq, and do as THEY say. Talk with the Sunni and Shiite militia groups and come to a truce, do things diplomatic wise. And trust me, these people are willing to talk, its America that isn't, and they need to change that.

[L0ST]

The fact is we ARE in Iraq now and these whining liberals just want us to just get up and leave...we are on a mission and the US military is gonna fufill this mission....and just to let you know this war isnt just gonna be done overnight, it takes time ppl, patience is the key. Everyone just wants results overnight IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN THAT WAY

[Axe&Hammer]

What the hell are you talking about, such a minor group wants you to stay, and you say ok.

Yeah the United States government and the Iraqi government are minor groups in this issue. :roll:



Who said America can go around and police the world? Better yet,who can stop us?

who says they should? Monroe,Roosevelt,Marshall and Wolfowitz

The primary reason Bush started this war was because he claimed Iraq has weapons of mass destructions.They did,but not the nuclear ones.


First of all, any sane man knows that Iraq does not have ICBM's.Since when is an ICBM the only WMD?


how the f*ck do you expect those missiles to reach America? Know one did,Bush and his cabinet's theory was that Iraq could give a nuclear weapon to a terrorist organization.


Now they make a new excuse, they claim Suddam killed millions and millions of Iraqi's. Yet they find only 4 - 5 dead bodies to sentence him for. Fine, thats acceptable, if he killed people, he is punishable of course. Saddam gave clearance for his cousin al-Majid to use chemical weapons(WMDs) during the al-Anfal Campaign killing thousands of people.During his reign of the nation,thousands perhaps millions of people will killed by his secret police.





This is not a legitimate war, this is definitely against UN laws as well, even if Suddam had nuclear missiles, under UN laws, it does not mean you can declare war on the country and overthrow the government.The UN is a mere annoyance to the United States and the other members of the security council


What should America do in this situation? come with a honest apology, apologize to the people of Iraq, and do as THEY say. Yeah Sorry for freeing you from a tyrant and giving you democracy...:-|

[momomike3]

Not a legitimate war. Ok. It's not legitimate except for Saddam breaking UN sanctions SEVENTEEN TIMES. When he did it ONE time we could invade.

[majinvegeta]

Yeah the United States government and the Iraqi government are minor groups in this issue. :roll:

Better yet,who can stop us?

Monroe,Roosevelt,Marshall and Wolfowitz

They did,but not the nuclear ones.


Since when is an ICBM the only WMD?

Know one did,Bush and his cabinet's theory was that Iraq could give a nuclear weapon to a terrorist organization.


Saddam gave clearance for his cousin al-Majid to use chemical weapons(WMDs) during the al-Anfal Campaign killing thousands of people.During his reign of the nation,thousands perhaps millions of people will killed by his secret police.


The UN is a mere annoyance to the United States and the other members of the security council


Yeah Sorry for freeing you from a tyrant and giving you democracy...:-|

Yea, you better be sorry, Muslims don't need your help. These same so called terrorists group that are fighting with each other, could just as easily fought during Suddams rule. What army came and fought against Americans? none, it was just a bunch of people fighting against America's arrival into the country, not Suddams army. It proves that people were not being oppressed during Suddam's rule, those who did something wrong were punished, well in any country, you have to abide the law.

The U.S. has no say in what is beneficiary for Iraq, thats up to the Iraqi people. As for who can stop the U.S., this is why people say death to America. America is an annoyance to the world, there are many countries that are sick of you going around forcing this so called democratic system down their throats.

Let nations fight on their own, if people of that nation truly want a better system, they have to fight for it. This is the way the world works, if you help someone get their freedom, you are in the end just going to cripple them. Its like helping a butterfly out of its shell, you do that, and the butterfly will not be able to fly, it will be crippled for the rest of its life. Getting out of the shell is the Butterfly's struggle, if it completes the struggle and gets out, it gets its freedom.

People who fight for freedom have to go through struggle, but when they achieve it, they realize that their hard work paid off. This hard work is then portrayed during the life of that nation. Look at Pakistan or America even or Canada and France. They all fought for their freedom and unity. No third person helped them, they had to fight on their own to bring together their nation. Pakistan fought on its own to get its independence, there have been many times where India has threatened and attacked Pakistan, but it has been successfully been able to defend itself.

Sure Suddam could have sold nukes to terrorists, so can Pakistan, so can China, so can Russia, so can France anyone can. Even the United States can, why not, who says they can't, anything is possible. But if that is the case, why not dismantle them all, I would rather be happy seeing all nations destroy their nukes instead of just one specific nation.

I really don't like your kind of thinking, how can you say that just because one is powerful, he / she should rule over the rest of the world and decide its future? all nations should have equal rights, because fact is, for all you know, tomorrow a even more corrupt ruler can rule over America and launch all those nukes in that country all over the world. And I would love to see what you think of that.

Saddams brother didn't give the clearance, even if he did, who supplied those weapons? exactly. Why do you ignore the fact these weapons were supplied directly from the U.S. to be used AGAINST the Iranian war, America encouraged this war. Yet now this same country is against Iraq for having those weapons? make up your minds. Fact is, your government system is a complete bull****, made only for American interest, the rest is of no concern, if it means killing millions, they are willing to do it.

[Axe&Hammer]

These same so called terrorists group that are fighting with each other, could just as easily fought during Suddams rule. But they decided not to just for kicks?



It proves that people were not being oppressed during Suddam's rulewow..just wow

America is an annoyance to the world, there are many countries that are sick of you going around forcing this so called democratic system down their throats.America is what ever nation hopes to be deep down...powerful,rich and dominating.

This is the way the world works, if you help someone get their freedom, you are in the end just going to cripple them. So South Korea and the rest of western Europe has been crippled by the US?:suspect:



They all fought for their freedom and unity. No third person helped themFrance helped us win Independence.

Sure Saddam could have sold nukes to terrorists, so can Pakistan, so can China, so can Russia, so can France anyone can. Even the United States can, why not, who says they can't, anything is possible. Why would western nations sell nukes to anti western terrorist groups?




I really don't like your kind of thinking, how can you say that just because one is powerful, he / she should rule over the rest of the world and decide its future?
yes,people with power should use it,if that means fighting wars to get resources or saving western Europe from poverty,then so be it.

all nations should have equal rightsExactly Iraq's freedom from opression is just important as France's was in 1940 right?

tomorrow a even more corrupt ruler can rule over America and launch all those nukes in that country all over the world.why would somebody launch all our ICBMs that would suicide....

Saddam's brother didn't give the clearance, even if he did, who supplied those weapons? exactly. France,West Germany and Britain:-|

Why do you ignore the fact these weapons were supplied directly from the U.S. to be used AGAINST the Iranian warWe gave Iran weapons.

Fact is, your government system is a complete bull****, made only for American interest, the rest is of no concern, if it means killing millions, they are willing to do it.Name a nation with a government that is focused more on the well begin of others and not itself,don't be angry with us because you sided with Britain and didn't join our revolution.

[majinvegeta]

But they decided not to just for kicks?

wow..just wow

America is what ever nation hopes to be deep down...powerful,rich and dominating.

So South Korea and the rest of western Europe has been crippled by the US?:suspect:

France helped us win Independence.

Why would western nations sell nukes to anti western terrorist groups?

yes,people with power should use it,if that means fighting wars to get resources or saving western Europe from poverty,then so be it.

Exactly Iraq's freedom from opression is just important as France's was in 1940 right?

why would somebody launch all our ICBMs that would suicide....

France,West Germany and Britain:-|

We gave Iran weapons.

Name a nation with a government that is focused more on the well begin of others and not itself,don't be angry with us because you sided with Britain and didn't join our revolution.

So be it, don't worry, if you feel domination and power is what drives good people, then eventually Muslims will win, and the day America is defeated their going retreat, just like they did from Somalia, just like they did from Vietnam. Its just a matter of time.

You truly act like the truth does not matter, who is right does not matter, the only thing matters is your own country. But honestly, what people want is a good leader, a leader that does not oppress or kill others for its own interest.

Of course all nations want whats good for them, but you don't do it by killing and oppressing and declaring war on other nations. Basically what you are saying is its ok for me to go to someones house and kill them if I cannot afford to eat or don't have enough money for a PS3.

Thats not the way things should be done, you don't kill someone because you are starving, you can ask for food on the street, you can ask for money on the street, but killing people or stealing is a crime. Its a crime in every country, and the same applies for countries. You don't declare war on a country just because you want oil. You have to buy it just like the rest of the world.

[Axe&Hammer]

just like they did from Somalia, just like they did from Vietnam. Its just a matter of time.
a group of spec ops soldier launched a badly planned attack,and is in no way a correct reflection of the US military,Vietnam is a perfect example of US force,we decimated the NVA and VC and won every major engagement.



But honestly, what people want is a good leader, a leader that does not oppress or kill others for its own interest.

So forcing Saddam out of power was a good thing?

Basically what you are saying is its ok for me to go to someones house and kill them if I cannot afford to eat or don't have enough money for a PS3.

I would ask for help or use my local connections to secure food, before I committed murder.


You don't declare war on a country just because you want oil.
If the united states just wanted oil,we wouldn't have invaded Iraq,we would have befriended it.People that think we invaded Iraq for oil are ignorant,very ignorant.



You have to buy it just like the rest of the world.
Actually we buy the most oil

[Firefox]

This is not a war for oil, it is a oil currency war.

[Pr0LiFiX]

So forcing Saddam out of power was a good thing?
So you think it would have been better if Saddam was still in power?

[majinvegeta]

So you think it would have been better if Saddam was still in power?

Yes I think so.

You should not help a nation because a small part of it says they want freedom. Those people who rallied and supported it were Kurdish, which are a small part of Iraq. Iraq is mainly based of Shiite and Sunni Muslims, both whom now have militia forces and are not only fighting amongst themselves, but against America as well.

A lot of people want America out, because they have made this into a bigger problem. To be honest, I think America went into Iraq for oil and to stay there as well, to establish a pro-America government so that he acts as a puppet. This way, in the future if they need to invade Iran or attack Pakistan, they can use Iraq as a base and use its air fields.

And America provided Iraq with old crappy military technology, they provided some things all the way from WW2. Basically they said here you can have our junk in trade for oil, so thats how Iraq is paying off this war, they are paying in oil. You still think its not a war for Oil and land?

Now look at what is happening, they are threatening Iran. And Iran is not a weak country, they provided some weaponry to Hezballah to use in that recent attack from Israel against Lebanon. And the Hezballah were able to handle the Israelis no problem, it was pretty much a 1:1 battle. And Israel was defeated, they did not meet their 2 goals they intended to meet. And who provides Israel its military? America.

So like I said, the Issue has already begun, we can't change the past. What America should do now is apologize to the people of Iraq for handling the situation very poorly and making assumptions of Iraq having illegal weaponry. And they should talk to those two militia groups and come to a peace agreement, and leave Iraq.

[StruggleWithin]

We have been at war since 91. It's never gonna end..

[majinvegeta]

We have been at war since 91. It's never gonna end..

Its going to end when Muslims finally take a stand. Right now, Muslims just get pushed around and beaten up. But I think eventually they will realize that America just wants to take over all of Middle East, and once this realization comes into those idiotic governments mind, most likely what will happen is these nations will unit under one banner and remove America from our land.

[momomike3]

Yeah Iraq would be wayyyyyy better with the guy that killed 3-4 million people running the country.

[StruggleWithin]

Iraq sucks anyway, I've been there it's nothing but desert..The place I was used to have a river running through it until Saddam diverted the river just to kill off the people there..

[Pr0LiFiX]

Its going to end when Muslims finally take a stand. Right now, Muslims just get pushed around and beaten up. But I think eventually they will realize that America just wants to take over all of Middle East, and once this realization comes into those idiotic governments mind, most likely what will happen is these nations will unit under one banner and remove America from our land.
You obviously don't understand how the Middle East works, do you?

Iraq is at a civil war that had nothing to do with America until Bush started to try acting very patriotic and decided to invade Iraq. Oh, thank you Bush for putting us in a war that should have ended when Saddam was hanged (sarcasm, ya know!) Thank you for acting like the Army can take anything, you dumb, inconsiderate Republican! I'd rather the Iraqis keep fighting their civil war without America's intervention. We don't need to be their because the majority of the Middle East already hates us!

[majinvegeta]

You obviously don't understand how the Middle East works, do you?

Iraq is at a civil war that had nothing to do with America until Bush started to try acting very patriotic and decided to invade Iraq. Oh, thank you Bush for putting us in a war that should have ended when Saddam was hanged (sarcasm, ya know!) Thank you for acting like the Army can take anything, you dumb, inconsiderate Republican! I'd rather the Iraqis keep fighting their civil war without America's intervention. We don't need to be their because the majority of the Middle East already hates us!

I do know Iraq is at a Civil War, and I do know that its because of Bush's war. Thats what I have been saying all along, that this war was wrong.

Iraqis should fight their own civil war, and America definitely should not intervene, and yes America should definitely leave. Leave with an apology to the Iraqi people, because Bush is the one to cause all of this.

But just because Iraq is at war, doesn't mean the rest of Middle East and Pakistan is. So I don't understand where we are conflicting, I agree with your points, and never disagreed :/.

As for Iraq sucks, thats your opinion, and regarding the river, I believe it was contaminated during the war thats why.

[Pr0LiFiX]

I do know Iraq is at a Civil War, and I do know that its because of Bush's war. Thats what I have been saying all along, that this war was wrong.

Iraqis should fight their own civil war, and America definitely should not intervene, and yes America should definitely leave. Leave with an apology to the Iraqi people, because Bush is the one to cause all of this.

But just because Iraq is at war, doesn't mean the rest of Middle East and Pakistan is. So I don't understand where we are conflicting, I agree with your points, and never disagreed :/.

As for Iraq sucks, thats your opinion, and regarding the river, I believe it was contaminated during the war thats why.
Sorry, that's all water under the bridge then, right?

For a second there, I thought you had your head up Bush's a** (I love using that term) or something.

Glad to see we're on the same page. :)

[Axe&Hammer]

We don't need to be their because the majority of the Middle East already hates us!

Correction the majority of the governemnts dont like us,the people love what are nations brings to the table,despite what the extermist think.

[majinvegeta]

Correction the majority of the governemnts dont like us,the people love what are nations brings to the table,despite what the extermist think.

Thats because you are blinded, have you even been to the Middle East or Pakistan? the people themselves, even me (I am from Pakistan), hate the American government and how it does things. I have some American friends, they are nice, but the government IMO is a total bull.

I don't like it when people go up to someone and say, you oppress your women by making them wear that Hijab. Yea, well when you so call "freed" Afghanistan, even after that women were wearing the Hijab, when the news reporters asked why, they said its part of their culture, its part of their religion.

I don't know why you people tend to ignore what WE say, we are not extremists, we don't intend to burn America or Europe into bits and pieces, but we don't want you to come into our land telling us how to live our lives. Because if you do that, then trust me, you will get an *** whooping like no other.

Muslims do not want you in their country, they don't want you to intervene in OUR problems.

[Axe&Hammer]

Thats because you are blinded, have you even been to the Middle East or Pakistan?
Yes,Dubai,Yemen amd Kuwait






I don't like it when people go up to someone and say, you oppress your women by making them wear that Hijab.Making you women cover up their hair because your men cant control themselfs is just wrong.


Yea, well when you so call "freed" Afghanistan, even after that women were wearing the Hijab, when the news reporters asked why, they said its part of their culture, its part of their religion.What do you expect,they are afraid.




Because if you do that, then trust me, you will get an *** whooping like no other.
lol no offence but it seems that people from the middle east cant win wars.

Muslims do not want you in their country, they don't want you to intervene in OUR problems.Then why where their american supported anti Saddam groups in Iraq decades prior to our envolvement their? or how about Iran where to this day we support college students in exil or in hiding who asked for our help. Go to Afganistan and ask the people,they are better off now,much better off.

[Pr0LiFiX]

lol no offence but it seems that people from the middle east cant win wars.
Wow, you are an *********.

The Middle East never asked America to invade them.

Man, do I feel great knowing that our government is run by a bunch of self-centered Republicans. (sarcasm)

[momomike3]

I got a great laugh from that. The middle east... even if united (most of it... the sauds arent going to turn on us) would get beat by the US military ALONE. Then we add in all of those allies. We have some big toys gentlemen... it would be very foolish to think the middle east could even stand a chance. Because if there was war (in theory obviously) we wouldn't come back and help to rebuild.

[Pr0LiFiX]

I got a great laugh from that. The middle east... even if united (most of it... the sauds arent going to turn on us) would get beat by the US military ALONE. Then we add in all of those allies. We have some big toys gentlemen... it would be very foolish to think the middle east could even stand a chance. Because if there was war (in theory obviously) we wouldn't come back and help to rebuild.
If that's true, the war would have already been over.

[majinvegeta]

Yes,Dubai,Yemen amd Kuwait

Making you women cover up their hair because your men cant control themselfs is just wrong.


That is YOUR opinion. Secondly, Women AND Men should play a role in preventing rape and what not. The male shouldn't be the only one who should have to control himself. I find it ridiculously stupid for women to wear half nude clothes, they purposely try to attract themselves towards men. Its ridiculous, give me one good reason to wear the kind of clothes westerns wear.

Besides, like I said before, thats your opinion, we are Muslims, we have to do as God tells us in the Quran, if you are not part of that belief, thats your problem. And of course, this is why our governments have religious laws as well, because we truly believe in Islam as the right religion. You don't have to, but just because we do doesn't mean its wrong.



What do you expect,they are afraid.


but we don't want you to come into our land telling us how to live our lives.


We Muslims are only afraid of God. We are not afraid of death, we are not afraid of America, that is why these small groups of terrorists continue to fight, even though they are small and very poorly armed.

No one comes into your land, no Muslim has ever told any American how to live his life. Its your government and your army that comes into OUR land telling us how to live, so remember that, I shouldn't have to repeat it.


lol no offence but it seems that people from the middle east cant win wars.


Do you know Pakistan? try learning more about their army. They are the most experienced army in the world, they have been through many wars and battles. Pakistan has one of the most lethal tanks in the worlds (Al-Khalid), they have the 3rd largest number of Cruise Missiles. And these cruise missiles are capable of going at least 500km, and are undetectable by any anti-missile system in the world. And they have jointly with China made the JF-17 Thunder aircraft, which is cheaper than the F16 and almost the same in performance and capabilities. Pakistani force did fight in the Arab war with 0 losses against the Israeli Air Force.

Pakistan has over 1.5 million soldiers well prepared for war, thats just the army itself. If the Pakistani people themselves had to fight, you would be looking at a population of 150 million going against you.

Iran does have a formidable army as well, its the recent technologies that Iran has that will help it if it has to go to war.


Then why where their american supported anti Saddam groups in Iraq decades prior to our envolvement their? or how about Iran where to this day we support college students in exil or in hiding who asked for our help. Go to Afganistan and ask the people,they are better off now,much better off.

These are kurdish people, they wanted more freedom, but they are a minority group in Iraq, they do not speak for the majority. You're the ones who believe in democracy, majority wins system. Well, why the hell did you go to fight for a ridiculous minority in Iraq? Shiite and Sunni make the majority of the country, they are the ones right now who are fighting against American presence in the country.

People who get exiled are not just random people who didn't do anything. They did something unlawful, and they were punished by being exiled. Don't tell me Canada or America never does that, when they see refugees or people from another country who do dangerous things in the western country, they detain/exile them to the originating country they came from.

Afghanistan is not much better off, they hardly have anything to rebuild with, much of the construction material like bricks needed to create the housing is in the hands of warlord *******s. And they ask for money, they don't give it out for free. Oh and did you also know that Pakistan and Al-Qaeda were responsible for defending Afghanistan from Russia? where was America then?

Seriously, bombing Afghanistan wasn't needed, but when they looked at the country, they said, pfft its just a bunch of poor Muslims, they mean nothing to America. So they decided instead of having to send in an army, they would bomb the **** out of the country to destroy most or any resistance and then go into the country and kill the rest that resist.

You tell me, if Osama was said to be in the United States with his army, would America send out bombers to bomb its nation hoping to kill off most of the soldiers? my ***, they would rather send out the army because they wouldn't want to harm their own people. But when it comes to harming Muslims, its not a problem at all.

Suddam was on America's side for quite some time, like during the Iranian War, Suddam was supported by America, because Americans did not want the Islamic Party in Iran to win, they wanted that Muslim leader to die because it was not in America's "interest" for him to be in government. This is why Americans also hate the current government of Iran, he is from the Islamic Republic Party. When Suddam carried out his plan and was done with the war on Iran, America pretty much saw no more use of Iraq, eventually they turned against Iraq and when Iraq declared war on Kuwait for land, America used this to attack Iraq and try to kill Suddam to put a puppet in instead, but that failed, thats why this war is going on now.

What better way to get oil than to fool the people of Iraq and place a puppet in the country. This is the same strategy the British used when they marched into Iraq, but the people quickly revolted and killed the *******.

[Pr0LiFiX]

No one comes into your land, no Muslim has ever told any American how to live his life. Its your government and your army that comes into OUR land telling us how to live, so remember that, I shouldn't have to repeat it.
I'm with you on that one.

Walk in their shoes, in this case, the Middle Easterns, before you make an opinion on the war.

[OKlondon]

Correction the majority of the governemnts dont like us,the people love what are nations brings to the table,despite what the extermist think.

:lol: How can you possibly make that judge and just out of interest what does your "nations" bring to the table, Mcdonalds?

[Pr0LiFiX]

:lol: How can you possibly make that judge and just out of interest what does your "nations" bring to the table, Mcdonalds?
Zing!

Okay, he didn't mean that literally. :lol:

[OKlondon]

Zing!

Okay, he didn't mean that literally. :lol:

:lol: Well I dont know with him.

I don't understand why some people think that the people in the Middle East hate their countries and their leaders and are just begging to have the same freedoms as there is in the US. People love their lives and their countries. They dont need America to show how to live.

I dont think America should be telling anyone when how to live when you have 32 people being killed by a student.

[Pr0LiFiX]

I dont think America should be telling anyone when how to live when you have 32 people being killed by a student.
Whoa, now that's a whole different ballgame right there.

The Virginia Tech Shooting has nothing to do with the war.

[OKlondon]

Whoa, now that's a whole different ballgame right there.

I m not being insensitive but really America, like all countries have their own domestic problems, personally I think should sought them out before teaching others how to live their lives.

I know it doesnt have anything to with it.

[Pr0LiFiX]

I m not being insensitive but really America, like all countries have their own domestic problems, personally I think should sought them out before teaching others how to live their lives.

I know it doesnt have anything to with it.
That's true.

It's not like we have other things to worry about, at the moment...but we do.

[Axe&Hammer]

That is YOUR opinion. Secondly, Women AND Men should play a role in preventing rape and what not.
Women should be allowed to carry tasers and rape whistles like they do here.

The male shouldn't be the only one who should have to control himself.
I have yet to hear of a rape case where the women was out of control.:-|

I find it ridiculously stupid for women to wear half nude clothes, they purposely try to attract themselves towards men.
Yes they were provocative clothing to attract males,but not to get raped.


Its ridiculous, give me one good reason to wear the kind of clothes westerns wear.

Simple they like the way the look,and the way they look in them.

Besides, like I said before, thats your opinion, we are Muslims, we have to do as God tells us in the Quran, if you are not part of that belief, thats your problem.
So God told us to wrap our women from their head to their toes and not let,because its slutty to have your hair exposed.

This is the climate of womens rights in the middle east

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article1414137.ece



No one comes into your land, no Muslim has ever told any American how to live his life. Its your government and your army that comes into OUR land telling us how to live, so remember that, I shouldn't have to repeat it.
I didn't say what you quoted you did.



Do you know Pakistan? try learning more about their army. They are the most experienced army in the world they have been through many wars and battles.
Thats a laughable statement,the Pakistani army has fought in mainly boarder wars,most ending in stalemates. The most experienced army in the world is debatable.

Pakistan has one of the most lethal tanks in the worlds (Al-Khalid)
The MBT 2000 is nothing more than Type-90 hardly in the most lethal tank category(that goes to the good ole Abrams;))


they have the 3rd largest number of Cruise Missiles.
No,they have a handful of re-engineered tomahawk missiles

And these cruise missiles are capable of going at least 500km, and are undetectable by any anti-missile system in the world.
another laughable statement,the Pakistani military industry is weak,and is using Chinese hand-me-downs,they dont have stealth missiles yet,so their missiles are detectable.

And they have jointly with China made the JF-17 Thunder aircraft, which is cheaper than the F16 and almost the same in performance and capabilities.

2 in active service;)

Pakistani force did fight in the Arab war with 0 losses against the Israeli Air Force.
A-flight of 67 Squadron was 8 men with limited combat time.


Pakistan has over 1.5 million soldiers well prepared for war, thats just the army itself.
Approximately 619,000 personnel are on active duty,with 302,000 Paramilitary forces and the Coast Guard for a total size of nearly 1,000,000 personnel.

If the Pakistani people themselves had to fight, you would be looking at a population of 150 million going against you.
Yeah its rare that a unarmed population fights in a war.


These are Kurdish people, they wanted more freedom, but they are a minority group in Iraq, they do not speak for the majority. You're the ones who believe in democracy, majority wins system.
I wasn't even talking about the Kurdish people,during the first gulf war,many people rose up against Saddam (both Sunni and Shiite)

Well, why the hell did you go to fight for a ridiculous minority in Iraq? Shiite and Sunni make the majority of the country, they are the ones right now who are fighting against American presence in the country.
We went to war to dispose of a tyrant and to destroy a "haven" for terrorism,the latter turned out to only be formed when we disposed the tyrant.



Afghanistan is not much better off, they hardly have anything to rebuild with, much of the construction material like bricks needed to create the housing is in the hands of warlord *******s. And they ask for money, they don't give it out for free.
Hmm,no more extremist government with people living in fear...

Oh and did you also know that Pakistan and Al-Qaeda were responsible for defending Afghanistan from Russia? where was America then?
Supplying Bin Laden(the creator of Al-Qaeda) with stinger missiles and explosives.:-|

Seriously, bombing Afghanistan wasn't needed, but when they looked at the country, they said, pfft its just a bunch of poor Muslims, they mean nothing to America. So they decided instead of having to send in an army, they would bomb the **** out of the country to destroy most or any resistance and then go into the country and kill the rest that resist.
Yep America=evil :roll:



You tell me, if Osama was said to be in the United States with his army, would America send out bombers to bomb its nation hoping to kill off most of the soldiers? my ***, they would rather send out the army because they wouldn't want to harm their own people.
ooook

But when it comes to harming Muslims, its not a problem at all.
Read up on Bosnia my friend we save countless lives

Suddam was on America's side for quite some time, like during the Iranian War, Suddam was supported by America, because Americans did not want the Islamic Party in Iran to win, they wanted that Muslim leader to die because it was not in America's "interest" for him to be in government.
The U.S. sold Iraq $200 million in helicopters, which were used by the Iraqi military in the war. These were the only direct U.S.-Iraqi military sales and were valued to be about 0.6% of Iraq's conventional weapons imports during the war.:-|

[majinvegeta]

Women should be allowed to carry tasers and rape whistles like they do here.

I have yet to hear of a rape case where the women was out of control.:-|


Yes they were provocative clothing to attract males,but not to get raped.


Thats ridiculous, imagine your provoking a bear, you think it shouldn't come after you and kill you? lets say you insult a Black man, you think hes not going to come after you and kick your butt? wearing provocative clothing means those that are bad people, who are willing to take the risk to rape women will do so. Secondly, Women shouldn't do this kind of thing because its what we call respect, its their respect. Do you want to marry a slut? no, didn't think so, i sure wouldn't. I don't want to marry some girl who's had sex in high school, I would want to marry a virgin.

Can't believe you would say this, what happens when you have kids? your just going to let them go around walk half nude and let them have sex in high school?


Simple they like the way the look,and the way they look in them.


yea, well its simple why a man would rape a women, simply because he likes her and thinks shes hot. But that does not justify it, in the same way, it doesn't justify a women wearing half nude provocative clothes. If she does care about her body, and does have respect for herself, she will cover it. And its not necessary to cover it completely, you should look at the way Pakistani women dress, its not that bad.


So God told us to wrap our women from their head to their toes and not let,because its slutty to have your hair exposed.


Thats a matter of religion, this is politics, the first step in Islam, is admitting its the true religion. You have to read the Quran to find the details why things are the way they are, and why God has banned certain things, but they are all good reasons. Obviously God would know better than you and me, but that depends on your beliefs.


This is the climate of womens rights in the middle east

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article1414137.ece


Umm no, as you can see, the police arrested him. That is not the way you deal with things. But again, this is a matter of religion, there are religious laws in place, but killing women is not the answer. That kind of crap does is rare, women don't get shot or mistreated in Pakistan. This is why we have the lowest divorce rate as well.


Thats a laughable statement,the Pakistani army has fought in mainly boarder wars,most ending in stalemates. The most experienced army in the world is debatable.


You can go talk to more professionals about that matter, ive been to defense talk forum and have chatted in the past regarding this, many believe Pakistan has a very well trained army. America may be advanced, but their soldiers are not very well trained. Advanced technology is different from having experience.

Pakistan has fought with India in the mountains, fought with them in jungles, fought against Russia in Afghanistan (desert), fought against Somalian Terrorists (where Americans retreated from), Pakistan Army participates in peacekeeping as well, and has fought against Israel in Arab war.


The MBT 2000 is nothing more than Type-90 hardly in the most lethal tank category(that goes to the good ole Abrams;))


Al-Khalid Tank
Crew 3
Length 10.07 m
Width 3.50 m
Height 2.40 m
Weight 46 tonnes

Armour and armament
Armour: 600 mm RHAe(modular composite & explosive reactive armour)
Main armament: 125 mm smoothbore gun
Secondary armament: 12.7 mm roof machine gun, 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun

Mobility
Power plant: 12-cylinder diesel model 6TD
1,200 hp (895 kW)
Suspension: torsion bar
Speed: 70 KM/H
Power/weight: 26 hp/tonne
Range: 400 KM


M1A1 Tank
Length: 9.83M
Width: 3.67M
Height: 2.44M
Top Speed: 64 KM/H
Weight: 68.7 TONS
Armament: 120 MM
Crew: 4
Range: 442 KM Approx.
Engine AGT-1500 turbine engine, Honeywell LV100-5 turbine engine
Allison DDA X-1100 3B transmission
1500 hp (1119 kW)
Power/weight 24.5 hp/tonne

No not really, there aren't any significant differences. Maybe I am not aware of something?


No,they have a handful of re-engineered tomahawk missiles

another laughable statement,the Pakistani military industry is weak,and is using Chinese hand-me-downs,they dont have stealth missiles yet,so their missiles are detectable.


"The advantage that Babur has over these other missile systems is that, as a low-flying cruise missile, it can hug the terrain and slip undetected through almost any protective radar system. The other advantage of the Babur cruise missile is that it can be moved around the country easily and virtually undetected, as opposed to ballistic missiles, which are easily detected."

- http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/756/in3.htm


2 in active service;)


The JF-17 will be mass produced this year sometime, the final tests have already been done.


A-flight of 67 Squadron was 8 men with limited combat time.


Big deal, they still fought against the Israeli, which are known to be the #1 air force in the world, yet Pakistan did not lose a single pilot, and it DID engage in battles during that time.


Approximately 619,000 personnel are on active duty,with 302,000 Paramilitary forces and the Coast Guard for a total size of nearly 1,000,000 personnel.


And its still a very large number.


Yeah its rare that a unarmed population fights in a war.


Many people in Pakistan own a gun, its not very difficult down there, its much easier because theres hardly any gun laws. But fact is, people down there have common sense and are religious, so as such, it is against our religion to kill innocent people. So crime down there isn't bad at all, its very low compared to America.


I wasn't even talking about the Kurdish people,during the first gulf war,many people rose up against Saddam (both Sunni and Shiite)


Yea right, for some reason they all of a sudden decided to change their minds? after all, the American army was in there back then, and their in there right now, the only difference is Suddam is now dead.


We went to war to dispose of a tyrant and to destroy a "haven" for terrorism,the latter turned out to only be formed when we disposed the tyrant.


Haven for terrorism? thats ridiculous, Suddam had no ties with Al-qaeda, Al-qaeda even rejected the claim and said themselves that they hate Suddam. Suddam said the same regarding Al-qaeda, he even stated many times that he has no WMD's, but no one would listen.

Fact is, a country doesn't spend 22 billion and over to go to a country just to dispose of a so called tyrant. There are many other tyrants as well, lets look at North Korea shall we? he seems to have been pretty ****ed and threatening towards America, that government even launched nuclear tests, yet America did hardly anything to stop them, rather Bush would stare at Iran instead. I think its pretty clear America just wants to bully countries that have resources and some importance to the U.S., they will do what is in THEIR interest, not in the WORLDS interest.


Hmm,no more extremist government with people living in fear...


Yea lets look at your country for a second, after 9/11 people would panic like crazy if another alarm was set of for a similar experience. Currently, its the Americans that live in fear, thats why they always talk about airport security, and how to prevent explosives on aircraft. They have put so much security and taken away so much freedom from people. Ever heard this saying - "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin.

If Iraqi people were truly living under fear, these so called terrorists would have revolted during those 10 years of silence. It would have been better than revolting now with the presence of the American army. The presence of America doesn't make it easier for these militia groups, it makes it harder.


Supplying Bin Laden(the creator of Al-Qaeda) with stinger missiles and explosives.:-|


So they provided weaponry to the enemy of America.


Yep America=evil :roll:


Well what else would you think of it? its pretty stupid to think you can bomb one person, thats a pretty difficult task. Even after bombing with their ridiculously advanced weaponry, they failed to kill the one thing they were after, Osama, who is still at large. Maybe if they didn't wuss out and had actually sent in an actual army, they could have accomplished more and capture him like they did with Suddam.


Read up on Bosnia my friend we save countless lives


We are talking about Iraq war, not about Bosnia. Things could have been different back then compared to how things are today. Today Bush the maniac is in charge.



The U.S. sold Iraq $200 million in helicopters, which were used by the Iraqi military in the war. These were the only direct U.S.-Iraqi military sales and were valued to be about 0.6% of Iraq's conventional weapons imports during the war.:-|

No actually I am pretty sure they have sold a lot more than just a bunch of Helicopters. And actually Iraq is also paying for this war with oil

http://www.house.gov/schakowsky/iraqquotes_web.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0110-01.htm

[Axe&Hammer]

Black man, you think hes not going to come after you and kick your butt?
Racist and Sexist:rolleyes:




Secondly, Women shouldn't do this kind of thing because its what we call respect, its their respect. Do you want to marry a slut? no, didn't think so, i sure wouldn't. I don't want to marry some girl who's had sex in high school, I would want to marry a virgin.In Islamic nations if a women has her hair exposed is she a slut? if she wears jeans is she a slut?

Can't believe you would say this, what happens when you have kids? your just going to let them go around walk half nude and let them have sex in high school?I don't plan on having kids but I guess I would raise them to dress they way they want to.



yea, well its simple why a man would rape a women, simply because he likes her and thinks shes hot. But that does not justify it, in the same way, it doesn't justify a women wearing half nude provocative clothes. If she does care about her body, and does have respect for herself, she will cover it. And its not necessary to cover it completely, you should look at the way Pakistani women dress, its not that bad.
Rape is never the fault of the women.:-|










You can go talk to more professionals about that matter, ive been to defense talk forum and have chatted in the past regarding this, many believe Pakistan has a very well trained army. America may be advanced, but their soldiers are not very well trained. Advanced technology is different from having experience. We have the most advanced and highly trained military on the face of the Earth.


fought against Somalian Terrorists (where Americans retreated from)As did the Pakistanis:|




Al-Khalid Tank
Crew 3
Length 10.07 m
Width 3.50 m
Height 2.40 m
Weight 46 tonnes

Armour and armament
Armour: 600 mm RHAe(modular composite & explosive reactive armour)
Main armament: 125 mm smoothbore gun
Secondary armament: 12.7 mm roof machine gun, 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun

Mobility
Power plant: 12-cylinder diesel model 6TD
1,200 hp (895 kW)
Suspension: torsion bar
Speed: 70 KM/H
Power/weight: 26 hp/tonne
Range: 400 KM


M1A1 Tank
Length: 9.83M
Width: 3.67M
Height: 2.44M
Top Speed: 64 KM/H
Weight: 68.7 TONS
Armament: 120 MM
Crew: 4
Range: 442 KM Approx.
Engine AGT-1500 turbine engine, Honeywell LV100-5 turbine engine
Allison DDA X-1100 3B transmission
1500 hp (1119 kW)
Power/weight 24.5 hp/tonne

No not really, there aren't any significant differences. Maybe I am not aware of something?
Depleted Uranium armor







"The advantage that Babur has over these other missile systems is that, as a low-flying cruise missile, it can hug the terrain and slip undetected through almost any protective radar system. The other advantage of the Babur cruise missile is that it can be moved around the country easily and virtually undetected, as opposed to ballistic missiles, which are easily detected."That applies to all cruise missiles :roll: Unlike Pakistan we have Aircraft,Ships and Subs to launch them from




The JF-17 will be mass produced this year sometime, the final tests have already been done.
Still its a budget multi-role aircraft,compared to the F-35II and F-16




Haven for terrorism? thats ridiculous, Suddam had no ties with Al-qaeda, Al-qaeda even rejected the claim and said themselves that they hate Suddam. Suddam said the same regarding Al-qaeda, he even stated many times that he has no WMD's, but no one would listen.Al-Qaeda is the only terrorist organization?:-|



Fact is, a country doesn't spend 22 billion and over to go to a country just to dispose of a so called tyrant. There are many other tyrants as well, lets look at North Korea shall we? he seems to have been pretty ****ed and threatening towards America, that government even launched nuclear tests, yet America did hardly anything to stop them, rather Bush would stare at Iran instead. I think its pretty clear America just wants to bully countries that have resources and some importance to the U.S., they will do what is in THEIR interest, not in the WORLDS interest.We can attack North Korea without South Korea's consent,and Iran is next.






If Iraqi people were truly living under fear, these so called terrorists would have revolted during those 10 years of silence. They tried to revolt but they were always killed,in fact their were whole armies of Iraqis training outside of Iraq to take over the country




So they provided weaponry to the enemy of America.At that time he was the enemy of our enemy(Russia),thus a friend.



Well what else would you think of it? its pretty stupid to think you can bomb one person, thats a pretty difficult task.Thats how we got al-Zarqawi



Maybe if they didn't wuss out and had actually sent in an actual army, they could have accomplished more and capture him like they did with Suddam.I completely agree,we should have relied so much on the Pakistani military,we should have used our men only.;)



We are talking about Iraq war, not about Bosnia. Things could have been different back then compared to how things are today. You said America doesn't care about Muslims,in Bosnia we saved millions of them.



Today Bush the maniac is in charge.Bush is hardly a maniac.




No actually I am pretty sure they have sold a lot more than just a bunch of Helicopters.

You'd be wrong

[majinvegeta]

Well w/e, this thread is getting out of hands a little.

There are no iraqi armies outside of the country, if that was the case they would be in this war fighting against Americans.

Whatever has happened has happened, we can't backtrack and fix mistakes. So as I said before, the resolution to this is for America to apologize and remove its army from the country. They have to talk to those two militia groups and come to a peaceful solution instead of going around and killing more people.

Violence is not going to resolve this.

As for war on other nations, I hope it doesn't happen, war is the worst thing that can occur. But if it does, then I hope America does lose, because I, and Muslims of Middle East definitely don't want America in Muslim land.

If America wants to teach us how to live, then they need to do it diplomatically, not shove it down our throats via war. And if we disagree to it, then America needs to learn to deal with it, and learn to live with different people. The world isn't just going to bow down and do as America says so. We are Muslims, we will fight if we have to defend ourselves.

[Pr0LiFiX]

Bush is hardly a maniac.
Okay, and my name is Mickey Mouse and I like in Disney Land. :roll:

Seriously, have you been here in the past 6 years?

[Axe&Hammer]

Okay, and my name is Mickey Mouse and I like in Disney Land. :roll:

Seriously, have you been here in the past 6 years?
Living comfortably on the west coast like I have during the past presidency,why where are you some place thats gone to complete hell because of Bush,or just a well off liberal who likes to bash a president they don't understand?

[PXG S3]

I don't want to go on and on about this because I've said this WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many times.

Basically, the war is a collosal waste of time, money, resources and especially, people. I knew this before we even went there. Our reasons for going there are misleading and completely void of truth or any merit. The real reason why we're there, I don't know (possibly related to oil or weapons contracts), but whatever it, its DEFINITELY not for a good reason.

The idea that Iraq was a threat is complete bullocks. IT WAS NEVER A THREAT!!! If there weren't any terrorists there (which there really weren't) there are surely some there now. Because of America, Iraq is far worse than it was, and because of what we have done and our invading presence, it only gives more reason and merit for someone (or a group) to do something against us.

Instead of WASTING hundreds of billions of dollars (that should go to Katrina victims or people in Darfur for instance) and sending a bunch of KIDS to fight a dumbass war, we should use that money for more meaningful and beneficial projects, other than finding new ways to blow someone up. Additionally, I would love to see all of our troops home safe and sound. I don't want to see another troop or Iraqi citizen lose his or her life in this meanlingless debocal of a "war" we are in. Too many lives have been lost and no more need to be lost in this worthless "cause"

This **** is stupid. Every second we are there, we are wasting more money, more time and more people that could have been used or allocated for better and more positive use.

All of those on Capitol Hill supporting this **** can suck my big, black, mother****in' ****! **** you all! Thanks a bunch for making this world worse for everyone! :cuss:

[Pr0LiFiX]

Living comfortably on the west coast like I have during the past presidency,why where are you some place thats gone to complete hell because of Bush,or just a well off liberal who likes to bash a president they don't understand?
No, I, for one, recognize the bad things that are happening in the world.

[Firefox]

Don't dis Iraq, if you had a soul you would know what it would be like to have
half your family killed in a suicide bomb in a sectarian conflict.

If America is there, they should like to bring forth peace and maintain it (even though it is
very tough). Well we Canadians are good at it. ;)

[momomike3]

If I had a soul I'd know what it would be like to have half of my family killed in a suicide bomb from sectarian conflict? I have no idea what that feels like but I'd like to think I have a soul.

Good thing the people in power know what they're doing. If we had PXG 360 running the country we'd have triple the number of troops dead in Darfur (which is pointless for us to be involved in). Pumping money to them won't do anything.

War DOES solve things. It solves things quite nicely in fact, because SOMEONE WINS and SOMEONE loses. I'm not saying I love war, I would much rather have us be in peacetime all the time, but war is inevitable sometimes. Yes, we found out LATER that there weren't any nuclear WMD's, but hind sight is 20/20 ladies a gents. Congress voted to send us to war. I'm sure most wouldn't vote to go to war if they knew what they knew now. Getting up and leaving and allowing hundreds of thousands to get slaughtered is rediculous to even think about.

[Axe&Hammer]

The idea that Iraq was a threat is complete bullocks. IT WAS NEVER A THREAT!!!
To our ideals it was.

If there weren't any terrorists there (which there really weren't)Iraq has harboring several terrorists and terrrorist group.s

Because of America, Iraq is far worse than it was, and because of what we have done and our invading presence, it only gives more reason and merit for someone (or a group) to do something against us.correction,because of groups in Iraq the place is far worse.


No, I, for one, recognize the bad things that are happening in the world.
And they existed far before Bush and will exist far after he is gone.

[majinvegeta]

To our ideals it was.

Iraq has harboring several terrorists and terrrorist group.s
correction,because of groups in Iraq the place is far worse.



Everything in the ****ing world is a threat to your country.

Like I said, America is only interested in something that is of their interest. The reason they are down there is for their interests, that means $$$. Iraq is in no way a threat to America, it has no way of fighting against America.

You know that, clearly after gulf war, Iraq has become a military less country, it has no military. There was pretty much no resistance from the army, oh wait, there was no army. It was just a bunch of civilians of Iraq trying to fight against America. They had AA guns that did **** during the war if you watch the videos, if they had any WMD's they would have used them against advancing forces or against ships or SOMETHING. They did in the gulf war, when they shot those rockets into Israel.

Iraq was not a threat to anyone, it was not harboring any terrorists, its a worthless claim made to justify the war. If you think it does have terrorists, then justify it with some proof. Yes NOW there are so called terrorists, but thats just people fighting FOR Iraq, because of the occupation of America in the country. Theres militia groups of Sunni and Shiite fighting for power, and fighting against America at the same time.


And they existed far before Bush and will exist far after he is gone.

Prove it, for the past 10 years Iraq has had nothing. The only so called terrorists existing in Iraq are the people of Iraq who are fighting against America. Those are the people who America claims as terrorists. They are fighting against American Occupation and fighting for power in the country.

And this did not exist during the time of Suddams rule. And truly if those two militia groups wanted, they could have done this during Suddams rule.

[momomike3]

Wait so are you implying that George W. Bush is the root of all terrorism?

[Axe&Hammer]

Like I said, America is only interested in something that is of their interest. The reason they are down there is for their interests
Countries look out for themselves,not other,so you expect the US to different,how do think we became a super power? by being meek?



If you think it does have terrorists, then justify it with some proof.
Before the war Saddam was financing and/or supporting within his own nation the People's Mujahedin of Iran,Abu Nidal Organization (ANO), and the Arab Liberation Front.

Theres militia groups of Sunni and Shiite fighting for power, and fighting against America at the same time.
I hate stupid wars like the one between the Sunni and Shiites its going to destroy the new Iraq:mad:



Prove it, for the past 10 years Iraq has had nothing. The only so called terrorists existing in Iraq are the people of Iraq who are fighting against America. Those are the people who America claims as terrorists. They are fighting against American Occupation and fighting for power in the country.
Wasn't talking about Iraq..twas speaking of the "bad" things that are all "Bush's" fault.


And this did not exist during the time of Suddams rule. And truly if those two militia groups wanted, they could have done this during Suddams rule.
We have to follow conventions,Saddam didn't,he could gass whole towns,we cant,yes if we started to kill anything that moved there would be less attacks but thats not the American why these days.

[majinvegeta]

Wait so are you implying that George W. Bush is the root of all terrorism?

No, terrorism has been in this world for a very very long time, and it isn't something just Muslims do, its something many others in many different countries have done as well.

But the reason there are these attacks happening in Iraq is because of America. American occupation is what caused these militia groups in Iraq to rise up. The reason being, because at the moment the largest group in Iraq is Shiite, Sunni are second and then there is a minority of Kurdish. The Shiite and Sunni are fighting for power because they believe the other will give lack of support for the other, so theres basically power struggle going on.

They are also partaking on attacking Americans, they want to rid the country of America occupation and set up a Muslim government. If you look at Iraq's history, this is not the first time something similar as this has occurred. Earlier, British forces marched into Iraq and killed the dictator, they claimed to be "Freedom Fighters" here to protect the Iraqi's and put a democratic government in place. Well, they lied, instead, they put up a puppet who was there just for British Interests. Iraqi people soon realized this, and just like what is happening today, the Iraqi people rose and put up their guns and fought against any resistance to kill the government. Once killed, they put up a new government in place.

This is why so many people in Iraq are fighting and why there is so much violence, they know that this is the same plan America has up their sleeve, to put a fake government in place to fool the people so that America can get the resources it wants for very low prices, and of course use this as a future asset, like possibly attacking Iran, they can just use the bases and attack Iran without any problems.

Countries look out for themselves,not other,so you expect the US to different,how do think we became a super power? by being meek?


Man, how ignorant can you be. How difficult is it to understand what the U.S. is doing. Yes, of course, a nation looks for its own interests before another's.

But, what America does is, they look at the government, they talk, and then if they find that this guy is not giving them a good deal, or this country has important resources that America wants. They send in these spies and their own little terrorists group against the country. To stir up civil disorder, to assassinate key figures so that America can place their own puppet in the country instead. Is this OK?! would you want that in America too? some guy from country B comes over to country A and replaces your government with a puppet, one that will comply with country B to whatever it needs?

Its ridiculous, basically it means Country B will eat up all the resources from country A without providing fair value, and then once its dry, they will just forget about it.

Its ok to deal with nations that have things that interest you, but dealing behind the back and assassinating, putting sanctions because its a Islamic government, threatening to bomb the country to the stone age (that was said to MY country, Pakistan :evil:), this is NOT the way you deal with people.

If I come over to your house, and I want to buy something you are selling, would you like it if I threatened to kill your family if you didn't sell it for $25 dollars less? of course not! the same goes for any of the other reasons.

America just does not like the Islamic system put into these countries. They want to put their democratic system everywhere, or the countries pay the price by being put with sanctions and being threatened to be destroyed if they do certain things. They do their best to prevent countries from becoming Economically powerful.

Just admit it, thats not the way you should deal with anyone. Yes, by all means, do good for your nation, defend your nation, be proud of where you are from, but DON'T THREATEN OTHER COUNTRIES, DON'T SLANDER OR INSULT OTHER RELIGIONS OR WAY OF LIFE OR CULTURE, DON'T TELL NATIONS HOW TO LIVE, DON'T TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO, DON'T ASSASSINATE NATIONS FOR YOUR OWN INTERESTS.


Before the war Saddam was financing and/or supporting within his own nation the People's Mujahedin of Iran,Abu Nidal Organization (ANO), and the Arab Liberation Front.


Exactly, you see what I mean. Mujahedin, whats wrong with him? what did he shove a rocket up Bush's *** or something? the only reason American government hate him is because hes A MUSLIM, because hes the one that isn't blinded or interested in working for bad people. He does not want to kill innocent people or be part of something that is wrongful. Because he is part of the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC.

Arab Liberation Front, whats up with them? America may think its a terrorist organization, but rather its just a political party, by the Palestinian people themselves, minuscule, but still a party of Palestine. Same goes with PLO, and same goes with Hamas. You cannot blame them alone, if people are not going to listen to them and ignore them, then thats just absurd and ignorance. They have the right to speak and fight for the Palestinian people, people who are being oppressed and killed. Israel is also responsible for a lot of death down there.


I hate stupid wars like the one between the Sunni and Shiites its going to destroy the new Iraq:mad:


New Iraq my ***, I hate this ridiculous bull**** made up by Bush and his ridiculous Government. Its Iraq, its what the people made long ago, Suddam wasn't the only one in power for all of Iraq, its a much older country than just 30 years.


We have to follow conventions,Saddam didn't,he could gass whole towns,we cant,yes if we started to kill anything that moved there would be less attacks but thats not the American why these days.
[/quote]

He could gas whole towns, that would happen if he had an army. He lost his army in the Gulf war, he had nothing remaining during those 10 years, and he did nothing to rebuild his army either, yet Bush claims they were preparing to attack America? what a joke. They didn't even have any air force, how the hell did you expect them to reach America? swim there?

Yea, you keep coming up with ridiculous little excuses to protect bush.

EDIT:

Oh here, lets take another way of looking at it. A countries interest, lets see, America has drug problems, very high crime rate, very high rape rate, racism, discrimination, poor people, obesity problems, diseases like cancer are an issue etc. etc. etc.

A good government, a government that cares for his people would spend that $22 + Billion (that was spent on Iraq war) on these issues instead of global issues like Iraq. A good government would rather make education free so that people can grow up to be w/e they want without worrying about lack of funds. A good government would improve police system and build community places to help bond people and reduce racism, crime, and drug problems. A good government would try to find new ways to stop this problem of Americans becoming fat. A good government would help develop his own country, instead of sending troops off to another country only to die for no reason whatsoever.

Yea, those tax dollars sure are going for a great cause there, a cause people are not even sure of.

[SuperSJ-PS3]

This war/invasion is a complete joke...

First Bush were hunting for Osama Bin Landin and than out of the darkest blue in the darkest corner, we are now hunting Saddam. I was like what the F***en hell happen to OSAMA BIN F***en LANDIN?........... :/

From tracking down a terrorist to convincing the nation that Saddam is hiding a nuclear weapon.

You know what I smelling here? A BIG FAT Conspiracy going on here...

Loose change 9/11 anyone?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&q=Loose+change+911&hl=en

[majinvegeta]

This war/invasion is a complete joke...

First Bush were hunting for Osama Bin Landin and than out of the darkest blue in the darkest corner, we are now hunting Saddam. I was like what the F***en hell happen to OSAMA BIN F***en LANDIN?........... :/

From tracking down a terrorist to convincing the nation that Saddam is hiding a nuclear weapon.

You know what I smelling here? A BIG FAT Conspiracy going on here...

Loose change 9/11 anyone?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&q=Loose+change+911&hl=en

Exactly,

why do you think they never find him, every time some how that guy manages to leave behind video tapes of him in caves.

Thats funny, because the videos I have seen, before the army actually goes into the cave they bomb it to make sure no one else is in or has a trigger to kill them during entrance into the cave, what, some how the video cassette manages to survive every time? and every time they manage to end up in the right cave that has the next few days tape? its like a ridiculous movie cut into pieces and put into place to make people afraid so they vote for Bush and make it sound like Muslims truly are evil and should be bombed and punished, because otherwise they will attack America.

This is partially due to lack of communications between Muslim nations and the Western nations. There is so little communication, thats why some people in the states can't even point to the right nation on the map, and don't even know what Iraq is. Jesus, your country has been fighting there for the past few years and even in the gulf war, and you don't know Iraq?

I am glad I am aware of what goes in the Muslim world, and I do truly care for those poor innocent people who are being oppressed and cheated.

And whats funny is that America still thinks hes in boarder area between Pakistan and Afghanistan. This Iraq war was a diversion, just to get people off the case of Osama and his terrorist army, and to try to link them between Suddam. Which is false, Al-Qaeda and Suddam have no ties whatsoever.

Trust me, people are willing to do anything for money, this goes for Jews, Muslims, Christians, Americans, Arabs, Pakistani, Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Europeans. All nations, all regions, all cultures, and people of all religion have bad people. Just because America is super power doesn't automatically mean that every government elected in America is perfect and righteous, he isn't god, hes a man like you and me, tomorrow he could become a demented little fool and nuke a country and people will then realize that maybe America should have been destroying nukes, not building them.

[Axe&Hammer]

They are also partaking on attacking Americans, they want to rid the country of America occupation and set up a Muslim government. If you look at Iraq's history, this is not the first time something similar as this has occurred. Earlier, British forces marched into Iraq and killed the dictator, they claimed to be "Freedom Fighters" here to protect the Iraqi's and put a democratic government in place. Well, they lied, instead, they put up a puppet who was there just for British Interests. Iraqi people soon realized this, and just like what is happening today, the Iraqi people rose and put up their guns and fought against any resistance to kill the government. Once killed, they put up a new government in place.
The key difference,is that the people of Iraq voted for their new government,and many of the people that are in power now where persecuted by Saddam,so the people in power are liked by the people,they have a democracy,they dislike American policies and our continued "occupation" while we are trying to train a new army and police they attack us,as they attack us they are destroying all hope of a free democratic nation.:-|




This is why so many people in Iraq are fighting and why there is so much violence, they know that this is the same plan America has up their sleeve, to put a fake government in place to fool the people so that America can get the resources it wants for very low prices, and of course use this as a future asset, like possibly attacking Iran, they can just use the bases and attack Iran without any problems.

A fake government that lies to us and doesn't do its fair share...sounds like a puppet to me:roll



But, what America does is, they look at the government, they talk, and then if they find that this guy is not giving them a good deal, or this country has important resources that America wants. They send in these spies and their own little terrorists group against the country. To stir up civil disorder, to assassinate key figures so that America can place their own puppet in the country instead. Is this OK?! would you want that in America too? some guy from country B comes over to country A and replaces your government with a puppet, one that will comply with country B to whatever it needs?
This isnt 1985, Reagan is gone n' dead we don't have the balls to play puppet master anymore,we are making allies now,its cheaper.

Its ridiculous, basically it means Country B will eat up all the resources from country A without providing fair value, and then once its dry, they will just forget about it.
Welcome to the real world,its mean and full of mean people.

Its ok to deal with nations that have things that interest you, but dealing behind the back and assassinating, putting sanctions because its a Islamic government, threatening to bomb the country to the stone age (that was said to MY country, Pakistan :evil:), this is NOT the way you deal with people.
Stop playing the poor Muslim card,we put sanctions on Iraq,not Kuwait,or Yemen,or UAE or Dubai only on one nation.




America just does not like the Islamic system put into these countries.

They want to put their democratic system everywhere, or the countries pay the price by being put with sanctions and being threatened to be destroyed if they do certain things.
Egypt is our ally and they are Constitutional Republic,we support governments where the people are treated equally in the eyes of the government and it shows,Iraq was not one of those nations,and it was one of our enemies,with links to terror,thus a prime candidate for external liberation.


They do their best to prevent countries from becoming Economically powerful.
Dubai,UAE,Kuwait and Saudi Arabia our economical powerful,why because they but money and politics before faith.



DON'T THREATEN OTHER COUNTRIES, DON'T SLANDER OR INSULT OTHER RELIGIONS OR WAY OF LIFE OR CULTURE, DON'T TELL NATIONS HOW TO LIVE, DON'T TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO, DON'T ASSASSINATE NATIONS FOR YOUR OWN INTERESTS.
Tell that to Islamic extremists :-|



Exactly, you see what I mean. Mujahedin, whats wrong with him?
Mujahedin isn't a person:suspect:


the only reason American government hate him is because hes A MUSLIM

For the last time America doesn't hate Muslims we allow Muslims freedom of religion in our nation,they can do what every they feel like doing.





New Iraq my ***, I hate this ridiculous bull**** made up by Bush and his ridiculous Government. Its Iraq, its what the people made long ago, Saddam wasn't the only one in power for all of Iraq, its a much older country than just 30 years.

This is the new Iraq,a democratic Iraq,a fractured Iraq:-|

[/quote]

He could gas whole towns, that would happen if he had an army. He lost his army in the Gulf war, he had nothing remaining during those 10 years, and he did nothing to rebuild his army either, yet Bush claims they were preparing to attack America? what a joke. They didn't even have any air force, how the hell did you expect them to reach America? swim there?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Regular_Army

he had an army :roll:


Yea, you keep coming up with ridiculous little excuses to protect bush.
I dont care about Bush



Oh here, lets take another way of looking at it. A countries interest, lets see, America has drug problems, very high crime rate, very high rape rate, racism, discrimination, poor people, obesity problems, diseases like cancer are an issue etc. etc. etc.
The United States has problems,but despite them it is still the most powerful nation on Earth both militarily,politically,socially and economically




A good government would rather make education free so that people can grow up to be w/e they want without worrying about lack of funds.
I am a supporter of state government supported free higher education


A good government would improve police system and build community places to help bond people and reduce racism, crime, and drug problems.
America has all of those:-|




A good government would help develop his own country, instead of sending troops off to another country only to die for no reason whatsoever.
Our nation is developed unlike some countries*cough*Pakistan*cough*
And those soldiers are dying to ensure that all people have freedom,one nation at a time.But recently when those people seem to be of a darker skin tone we show less and less support......:-|



Yea, those tax dollars sure are going for a great cause there, a cause people are not even sure of.

You do live in America right?

[Pr0LiFiX]

Wow, if the bickering doesn't stop, I'm gonna have to open a can of "lock this thread". :roll:

Welcome to the real world,its mean and full of mean people.

Yeah. One of the reasons why I hate Bush.

I swear, the guy tries to fix things but it just gets worse.

[momomike3]

Let's just ban SuperSJPS3 from here because he is just going to flood this place with irrelevant things and things that are NOT TRUE.