Debate Club Thread #1: Affirmative Action

[JordanL]

This is the first debate thread for the Politics Forum Debate Club (http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=62515) ( http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=62515 ). The subject of this debate is Affirmative Action.

Overview

Affirmative Action is the practice of weighting admissions and considerations in places where individuals compete based on the assumption that minorities must work harder to achieve the same ends, and thus deserve a "lower bar".

Debate

The debate over Affirmative Action relates tangentally to the issue of racism and immigration. Conservatives typically assert that we set a double standard by claiming to aspire to racial equallity while our system perpetuates inequality of any kind. Liberals typically assert that society asserts its own double standards and that this is an attempt to compensate.

PLEASE NOTICE

This thread is open only to debate club members at this time. Once the debate concludes, the thread will open up to all members. If you would like to join the debate club, see here (http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=62515).

If you have something to contribute but do not wish to join the debate club, we suggest that you find someone in the club close to your views and suggest your argument and support via PM to them for consideration and posting.

Until the debate is concluded, non-member posts will be deleted so please be advised. If you have any questions or comments, PM me.

[JordanL]

Personally, I have to side with the rough conservative point of view. As a Libertarian, I think the government has no place artificially lowering the bar for minorities.

[Axe&Hammer]

I'm conservative on this issue,I don't thinks anybody should be given a leg up or be put down based on race.I think more time and money should be spent on the schools and the over all communities where minorities live,so we don't have to give them seats in higher positions or better chances to get into college, because they will all ready be on the way there.I all also think AA gives a bad name to blacks in power.

To Jordan,I don't think AA lowers the bar at all,it just raises it for others(and makes it slippery and narrower),who frankly don't need the bar to be raised.

[Firefox]

I do not think that we should lower the bars for minorities as we are setting
up out own double standards. However, I think there should be policies
where it is mandatory to interview 2 or so people from a minority (African-American, Asian etc...)
group in certain areas for employment.

It think that this will have many political benefits and economical as well.

[THEREALNEXTGEN]

Affirmative Action is an inequitable for all parties involved. The best students and people are the ones who should be accepted to college based on their merit. The only time race should play a part is with private colleges for certain racial or ethnic groups. Creating a standard such as the practice of affirmative action may sound like a good idea to help minorities, but in fact it is prejudiced towards and inequitable for the majority. Instead of helping minorities we are enabling them not to reach their own potential and in effect we are treating them unfairly by admitting them into college when they don't meet all requirements. Instead we keep the real students out of a college. This is a practice that hurts everyone and is a double standard.

[DINAMO788]

i hate it and all that crap....what they were saying is to change it from race to family income....

but its a looooot more than just going to a poor school with old resources. its a big debate in detroit since detroit schools suck and all. but like i said, it has a lot more to deal with the family, situation, outlook


allow me to be racist for a minute. think about a typical school kid from detroit. profile is mostly black. and do they like school? or think itis cool? hell no. they are too busy trying to act like ballers by following all the "rules of cool". they have no will to learn. no real will to strive to achieve. because they are suckered into this culture of school is for fools and you gotta stay fly...yyyyyyyyyy(song refernece :).

again this does not apply to everyone. but detroit schools are much worse than the one i went to. but its also a lot easier because they just have the same level of intensity. so if kids wanted to, they could get a 4.0 with some effort, most dont try though. ACTs will be hard because of lack of knowledge but as far as GPA and stuff. they can do that with some effort.

i was listening to the radio and they said that black and minority school kids are at an education level that white kids were at back in 1971? or something like that. this is an average of course.


know, im not being racist here...even though i asked for you to allow me to be racist..lol....its just an example of something i see. there are exceptions tot he rules but mostly....in detroit schools its more about being cool than achieveing in academics...yakno

[DayWalker]

DayWalker, please read the first post. This thread is limitted to debate club members for now. :)

-Jordan

[THEREALNEXTGEN]

I am not for a lower bar... but if its a tie... ****'em :D
Y'all had a 300 year head start :lol:

(Yes I ripped off Chris Rock)

Seriously though... as far as college is concerned: I am not to concerned about the rich
white kid, with all the advantages in the world, with 4.0 GPA who didn't get into his first choice of college b/c the school let 10 black students with "good" but not "great grades get out of the ghetto.

Cry me a river... :roll:

What's worse? Going to Princeton instead of Harvard?
Or keeping your foot on the throats of the less fortunate?

The point is, that the best deserve to college. If you did well in school and excelled as a person in many different activities, service and other such aspects then you deserve it over a minority who didn't do as well as you. That's unfair to kids who worked their butts off.

This would be a hypothetical situation:
I achieved a perfect GPA and did a bunch of stuff and can't pay for all of college and if some minority gets in ahead of me because he is African American or Hispanic, that's bull. I worked harder and I deserve if that happened to me. It is an inequitable practice. It's just not as you put it, going to Harvard instead of Princeton. Every person should be judged on their quality as a student and a person not based on their race.

Do you know that college pretty much can shape the rest of your life? It's pretty important to go as far as you can at what you deserve.

I just find your post inconsiderate and ignorant of the situation, I'm sorry.

[DINAMO788]

word. and yea...people IS all being like i need the help ...and..stuff...and im like...if you have what i takes... you dont need the help..and they're like...i live in the ghetto...and im like..can you spell ghetto...and they're like..........maybe..and im like......its not fair with AA..and their like...your not fair..and imm like.....I agree with realnextgen

daywalker, stop trying to get special advantages for unrelated factors. assuming minorities are people, just like white kids.....why do they need special priviliges.

[DayWalker]

Yeah... well you really shouldn't let college define you. Write that down.

Believe it or not, schools don't like to have a population of 4.0 nerds walking around.
believe it or not, the business world doesn't like a bunch of 4.0 nerds in their work force.
believe it or not, there is something beneficial about a diverse student body.

test scores and GPA's DO NOT DEFINE someone's capability or worth.
If they are in college, somebody recognized that. (Unless they are athletes, who technically aren't students)

There is A LOT of competition to get into colleges. If you really worked as hard as you claim then you really shouldn't have any problems. blaming the 50 minorities that didn't have your advantages and still managed to be considered for acceptance is really splitting hairs.

And in my opinion it makes you seem really ungrateful for those advantages. Which makes you seem inconsiderate.

word. and yea...people IS all being like i need the help ...and..stuff...and im like...if you have what i takes... you dont need the help..and they're like...i live in the ghetto...and im like..can you spell ghetto...and they're like..........maybe..and im like......its not fair with AA..and their like...your not fair..and imm like.....I agree with realnextgen

daywalker, stop trying to get special advantages for unrelated factors. assuming minorities are people, just like white kids.....why do they need special priviliges.

this is a garbage post. But i'll comment anyways.
I am not asking for special privileges. Life is not black and white. Some people have to overcome HUGE obstacles to be successful in life and I personally don't mind if they get a helping hand.

[Axe&Hammer]

assuming minorities are people

What the hell did you just say?:suspect:

[Axe&Hammer]

The point is, that the best deserve to college.
Um,no everybody deserves to go to college


If you did well in school and excelled as a person in many different activities, service and other such aspects then you deserve it over a minority who didn't do as well as you.AA gives better chances to people of color it doesn't give them a free pass.

That's unfair to kids who worked their butts off.the minorities work their butts off too.

I achieved a perfect GPA and did a bunch of stuff and can't pay for all of college and if some minority gets in ahead of me because he is African American or Hispanic, that's bull.guess you will have to work even harder.



Do you know that college pretty much can shape the rest of your life? It's pretty important to go as far as you can at what you deserve.If you expect college to shape your life then your are screwed,we shape our life earlier on.

[DayWalker]

Nexgen

I don't know why you can't pay for college. You can get student loans just about everywhere these days. You're gonna have to pay it back, but what does that matter if you work as hard you claim???

I had stellar grades too. AND I'm and African-American. And guess what? I had to pay for school too!!!! Imagine that?

I have 10s of thousands of dollars waiting for me once I finish my MS in engineering. But somehow I think i'll manage :D

If you want to go to school you can is my point.
Regardless of your financial or social/economic situation.

For someone who appears to be so driven you seem really pessimistic.
I hope everything works out for you. I really do. Where there's a will there's a way.

But please don't sit there and tell me you can't go to college b/c the minorities are getting all your money.

[Axe&Hammer]

I got ok grades in school,but because of my activities outside of school I got lots of recommendations from the right people and now I've been accepted to several schools.Those activities outside of school were aimed at minorities and the people that wrote my recommendations were in the business of helping black scholars,but I still worked my *** off volunteering and learning how to build and refurbish computers and machines,and because of that I'm going to be going to college and study to be a mechanical engineer and thanks to AFROTC I can become an aerospace engineer8)

[THEREALNEXTGEN]

Oh, I meant that I don't have the cash up front in being rich to get through school. I've already got scholarships in the tens of thousands in line along with federal aid, financial aid and preparing for loans. I can pay for school that way. I meant I'm not some rich white kid. There is no need to be condescending and haughty in your approach to arguing against some of the points I brought up.

I understand nobody wants all 4.0 GPAs. I'm saying those who work their butts off deserve to go to college and not be sabotaged by an inequitable process to give minorities a better chance. I don't have any problem getting into college, I've already been accepted to multiple colleges. I was stating I would be disgruntled if affirmative action allowed a minority go ahead of me that didn't perform as well I did.

Axe&Hammer, when I said the best deserve to go to college, I mean the best students and people should be accepted without being penalized by affirmative action. I believe all deserve the chance to go to college, I'm just saying the best students should get what they deserve.

Some of your other comments are ridiculous as in "work harder" when I said minorities can take someone else's spot, that's not even a worthwhile argument.

When I say college shapes your life, I am talking about your career and future.

Remember that I was being hypothetical, I should have made that clearer.

Only one school I applied to really uses race as a factor and that's Stanford.

[DINAMO788]

What the hell did you just say?:suspect:

way to take it out of context...i was satirizing the fact the minorities many times say they need all these people special privliges so i meant, assuming minorities are people...white kids are people too. we are all people...the comma was in there becuase iono


and axehammer:

Originally Posted by THEREALNEXTGEN
The point is, that the best deserve to college.

=Um,not everybody deserves to go. he means not everybody deserves to go to the best college..so people who have not worked for it do not deserve to go to a good college.



Quote:
If you did well in school and excelled as a person in many different activities, service and other such aspects then you deserve it over a minority who didn't do as well as you.

AA gives better chances to people of color it doesn't give them a free pass. =yea an unfair advantage simply becuase of their race. they show nothing special other than being another race....and treating people differently becuase of their race is ...ummm.....racism!


Quote:
That's unfair to kids who worked their butts off.

the minorities work their butts off too.
=ok so then they wouldn't need AA. if they work as hard as white kids they can go to the same college, without special excpetions.


Quote:
I achieved a perfect GPA and did a bunch of stuff and can't pay for all of college and if some minority gets in ahead of me because he is African American or Hispanic, that's bull.

guess you will have to work even harder.
=wow....way to sound like a lazy jackass(you sound like one, im not calling you one, no flame here). why dont minorities work harder to achieve the same level of people like realnextgen. your just looking for an easy way out.



Quote:
Do you know that college pretty much can shape the rest of your life? It's pretty important to go as far as you can at what you deserve.

If you expect college to shape your life then your are screwed,we shape our life earlier on. yea we can all see how well you shape your lives. college is the foundation for the rest of your future(rest of your life) so it is extremely essential.

[DINAMO788]

last time i checked, you need to be accepted before any financial issues are addressed. so rich or poor, all applicants should be judged on the same scale. race is should not be a determining factor just because the majority of minority students aren't as good of students as white students...sorry...but its true.

[DayWalker]

last time i checked, you need to be accepted before any financial issues are addressed. so rich or poor, all applicants should be judged on the same scale. race is should not be a determining factor just because the majority of minority students aren't as good of students as white students...sorry...but its true.

like I said unequal footing... again, you don't seem to get it.

And if they are able to qualify for college despite all that.
Then I have no problem with them getting a helping hand.
B/c in all honesty they probably worked harder than the majority of the upper middle class white students... while raising their brothers and sister and working a job... (for example)


I'd also like to point out that Universities are not forced to accept minorities... but encouraged.
And every University out there takes pride in its ability to attract underrepresented peoples.
They don't hand out free educations.

[DINAMO788]

whatwell what do you mean by helping hand? im perfectly alright with black only scholorships or w/e. but if you're talking about a helping hand in getting accepted then i must detest.

well the fact that they might have to work harder might not account some things such as intelligence. i'll use were i live as an example. detroit schools are much worse than the schools i go to..but they are also easier becuase they cannot achieve the same level of academics. so compartivley....its all even because the education level is analgous to the school difficulty in many cases.

but ummmm to be honest, the majority if my black friends whog ot into to decent to good colleges with AA help(either in getting in or scholorships based on race alone) are decently well off and arent in such a dire situation.
i just dont liek the fact that middle class white kids' financial stability should be a hinderence to their admittance because others are worse off. its no fault of the white kids.

the only kind of AA i would like is if it was based on income levels and it would mainly have to do with financial benefit as opposed to acceptance benefit

[DayWalker]

whatwell what do you mean by helping hand? im perfectly alright with black only scholorships or w/e. but if you're talking about a helping hand in getting accepted then i must detest.
1
well the fact that they might have to work harder might not account some things such as intelligence. i'll use were i live as an example. detroit schools are much worse than the schools i go to..but they are also easier becuase they cannot achieve the same level of academics. so compartivley....its all even because the education level is analgous to the school difficulty in many cases.
2
but ummmm to be honest, the majority if my black friends whog ot into to decent to good colleges with AA help(either in getting in or scholorships based on race alone) are decently well off and arent in such a dire situation.
i just dont liek the fact that middle class white kids' financial stability should be a hinderence to their admittance because others are worse off. its no fault of the white kids.

the only kind of AA i would like is if it was based on income levels and it would mainly have to do with financial benefit as opposed to acceptance benefit

bolded section one
What the hell are you talking about?
how in the world are the comparatively easier? They have less resources/supplies and teachers? how in the world does that make things easier for the students? Maybe easier fromy our point of view... but how are the kids supposed to compete with rich white kids when they go to a school that can't provide them with the same level of education. UNEVEN FOOTING.

And if they still qualify.... which means they did well on the ACT or SAT, which IS a universal test that they should technically be worse at since their HS sucks... then I would say they are deserving.

Bolded section two.
What did the school send your friends a letter saying "congrats you were accepted b/c your black?"

I don't know anyone, who is qualified, that has been turned away from a higher level education b/c the school was "too full". If they were... they were borderline-sub par students anyways. in which case, at least coming form my HS, they don't deserve to go to school over someone who worked their butts off and overcame the aforementioned difficulties.

[Axe&Hammer]

I think we should divide into two or three groups(against,for,neutral) we need sides to the debates

[DINAMO788]

bolded section one
What the hell are you talking about?
how in the world are the comparatively easier? They have less resources/supplies and teachers? how in the world does that make things easier for the students? Maybe easier fromy our point of view... but how are the kids supposed to compete with rich white kids when they go to a school that can't provide them with the same level of education. UNEVEN FOOTING.

And if they still qualify.... which means they did well on the ACT or SAT, which IS a universal test that they should technically be worse at since their HS sucks... then I would say they are deserving.

Bolded section two.
What did the school send your friends a letter saying "congrats you were accepted b/c your black?"

I don't know anyone, who is qualified, that has been turned away from a higher level education b/c the school was "too full". If they were... they were borderline-sub par students anyways. in which case, at least coming form my HS, they don't deserve to go to school over someone who worked their butts off and overcame the aforementioned difficulties.

i worded the compartive easier part wrong. what i meant to say is in the defense of the argument. schools in poor areas are worse so therefore its harder for students to get good grades, im saying its all relative becuase though the school is worse, the students there are not graded at the same level as the students of a better off school, which means they can still get an A by doing everything they need to.

ACT/SAT is the only real hardpart for students who havent learned as much as others. i cant say too much there.
there is also another element to the lower education aspect but im not at liberty of sharing that on this board. you can IM me if you wanna talk about it.

and obviously they did not get those letters. but when you have white and asian friends who have better grades, more extracurriculars and higher standardized test schools and get less scholorship money......its the race. especially when it comes to the more respectable schools accpeting some of the really good minority students. a good friend of mine who is black and is really smart. he is a bright hard working kid with great grades. he got a full ride to a prestigious school.; i had friends though who were not a minority with equal grades or better who got no scholorship or a very pathetic one. so thats what i meant in part 2.

and i know people who get wait-listed...wait until the school gets their minroity applications in and then sees how much room is left. so yes they do get left out.

[sonyfan6]

Since I’m joining late I will break this into two parts: construct and rebuttal.

Construct

Affirmative Action is necessary but imperfect. Affirmative Action fulfills a crucial role in modern society, namely it prevents a stagnant class system where the disadvantaged remain disadvantaged forever. However the current Affirmative Action system fails to properly alleviate the disadvantaged.

There are two reasons why specific minorities are disadvantaged in regards to higher education and the educated job market. These are a) discriminatory admission/hiring practices and b) less opportunity for early achievement. I will not discuss the first of these beyond saying that it is possible to make discriminatory admission/hiring practices illegal without Affirmative Action, which goes a step beyond. The more interesting point of debate regards opportunity for early achievement.

http://www.postsecondary.org/archives/Reports/ChicagoRpt9501.pdf

The above is a link to the results of a study regarding under-represented populations among higher education. The author points out that in 1970 the three under-represented populations were: low-income, blacks and females. The author further points out that at the time of publishing (2001) the three under-represented populations were: low-income, Hispanics, males. This is one, of many studies, that will tell you the same thing,: low-income families are continuously disadvantaged when it comes to higher education.

So, in fact, there is no fundamental flaw among a specific minority population that equates to less opportunity as evidenced by the fact that the underrepresented minority populations change with time. However, there is a group, namely the low-income, which is afflicted with less opportunity. A member of a minority from a successful family is not burdened with the same disadvantages as those from a low-income family. The low-income disadvantage is irrespective of minority status. Furthermore, this disadvantage can be hereditary in that the children of low-income families, because they are disadvantaged, are more likely to earn low-incomes themselves.

Affirmative Action, as it currently stands, fails to address the disadvantaged low-income families that do not belong to a minority. Similarly, Affirmative Action assists those that do belong to a minority but are from successful backgrounds and do not require assistance. Finally, Affirmative Action fails to place a cap on how long a minority is assisted, enabling minorities to become overrepresented.

Therefore, it is proposed that Affirmative Action should be changed to assist low-income families. This, New Affirmative Action, would truly be racially blind. Moreover, the New Affirmative Action would continue to help the disadvantaged members of a minority, as the disadvantaged minorities are over represented among low-income families. Assistance would go to those that need actually deserve it.

The goal of Affirmative Action is to ensure opportunity for the disadvantaged and, more fundamentally, to ensure a fluid class structure. These goals are laudable. However, it is my belief that Affirmative Action, while a good idea in principle, fails in implementation. If Affirmative Action were to be applied to the low-income and not minority populations irrespective of income, then the program would be more successful.


Rebuttal

The elevation of an unequal candidate is a failure not of policy but of execution. On paper, and when used properly, Affirmative Action merely grants extra weight between two equal candidates when one came from a disadvantaged background. There is nothing fundamentally flawed with this weighting because rising from nothing is significantly more challenging and shows a greatness of character beyond someone that has achieved the same levels but had not barriers to overcome. Most employers will do this anyway during hiring. This of course brings up the issue of whether or not the government should be implementing the policy. My answer is that it is the government’s place to ensure a fluid low-income class. A stagnant, discontent, low-income class is dangerous to society and in particular, the American Dream. Government is the very institution that is meant to safe guard the idea of the American Dream and therefore it is the government’s role to implement the policy.


Note: I’ve intentionally left this last part vague so there’s room for some good ol’ fashioned Lincoln Douglass debate should anyone want to respond in that manner.

[DayWalker]

i worded the compartive easier part wrong. what i meant to say is in the defense of the argument. schools in poor areas are worse so therefore its harder for students to get good grades, im saying its all relative becuase though the school is worse, the students there are not graded at the same level as the students of a better off school, which means they can still get an A by doing everything they need to.

ACT/SAT is the only real hardpart for students who havent learned as much as others. i cant say too much there.
there is also another element to the lower education aspect but im not at liberty of sharing that on this board. you can IM me if you wanna talk about it.

and obviously they did not get those letters. but when you have white and asian friends who have better grades, more extracurriculars and higher standardized test schools and get less scholorship money......its the race. especially when it comes to the more respectable schools accpeting some of the really good minority students. a good friend of mine who is black and is really smart. he is a bright hard working kid with great grades. he got a full ride to a prestigious school.; i had friends though who were not a minority with equal grades or better who got no scholorship or a very pathetic one. so thats what i meant in part 2.

and i know people who get wait-listed...wait until the school gets their minroity applications in and then sees how much room is left. so yes they do get left out.

well I can't speak for all universities... but I know the two that i have attended have offices/programs dedicated to recruiting students of color... and it is up to those programs to secure funding for those students. Not soley the universities- although they do provide some funding.

What you fail to realize is that there are a ton of people/programs/organaizations/corporations out there that are willing to provide funding to diversity. It doesn't necessarily effect you at all.

[DINAMO788]

what do you mean by funding to diversity? funding to schools for increased diversity? or funding to diverse people. im all for minority scholorships and whatnot, i even dont mind it being a minor factor but when better students are denied entry or are denied some bonus because a less impressive minority student got it, i dont find it fair...even if he/she had a harder upbringing.
equality is so hypocritically. first you want to be treated equally, now you say you need special privlidges to be treated equally

[DayWalker]

what do you mean by funding to diversity? funding to schools for increased diversity? or funding to diverse people. im all for minority scholorships and whatnot, i even dont mind it being a minor factor but when better students are denied entry or are denied some bonus because a less impressive minority student got it, i dont find it fair...even if he/she had a harder upbringing.
equality is so hypocritically. first you want to be treated equally, now you say you need special privlidges to be treated equally

well no offense... but if your marks are so borderline that you can be displaced by a lesser qualified student then it's your own fault.
(these are the people that get knocked off- the borderline students.)

I know for a fact that my marks guaranteed my acceptance to any school in my state. No chance of being knocked out.

And for the record- I meant funding to increase diversity means they give the school money to be used for scholarships/stipends that assist under represented students.
And I think some state governements actually provide more funding to the school in general if schools demonstrates an effort to recruit minority students.

[momomike3]

It should be Affirmative Action based on ECONOMICS, not color. If blacks ever want to be seen as equal (it's pretty obvious that not the whole nation sees them like this) they have to stop taking special treatment and work their way up. Special treatment makes them NOT EQUAL.

[DINAMO788]

thats pretty much what i said. diversity is a good thing and all but....it shouldn't be forced, as that might cause a problem. my high school was extremely diverse but my social self segregation dealt with peoples personalities rather than just color alone...though it was a good foreshadowing tool :P....no im not a complete racist and have black and muslim friends

[OMGashleysimpson]

They just banned it in Michigan in the last vote. I say about time, while it served its purpose in the 60's, 70's, 80's it is not needed anymore.

I had friends that had higher grades, and more impressive after school activitys and volentering, then the people that were accepted over them because of AA. (UM)

[janenba352]

I know I'm not in the debate club (yet) but I do want to bring up one thing then discuss what I say real quick. You guys are talking about how Caucasians are the majority in the USA. It's been proven that there are more African-Americans and Hispanics in the USA now then Caucasians so Caucasians are now a minority.

What is means would be that Caucasians should now be getting the benefits that the former minorities have. That bad thing is that I don't see this happening because the African American's cant get past that whole slavery thing even though its been about 2 or 3 generations since that all happened.


To Jordon - Id like to request that the next debate topic be on why these groups of people cant move past what happened.

[DINAMO788]

do you mean blacks+hispanics>whites?

i guess so but thats not how it works. if there are 5 white people, 4 black people and 3 latino people, white people are still the majority of the ethnicity.


good thing most black and hispanic people dont vote

[janenba352]

do you mean blacks+hispanics>whites?

i guess so but thats not how it works. if there are 5 white people, 4 black people and 3 latino people, white people are still the majority of the ethnicity.


good thing most black and hispanic people dont vote

No im meaning, 6 blacks , 5 hispanic, 4 white people. As in there is more of their races here now then there are whites.

[DINAMO788]

i highly doubt that black people are the majority population in the US...in fact im going to say your wrong without even checking.

[DayWalker]

I know I'm not in the debate club (yet) but I do want to bring up one thing then discuss what I say real quick. You guys are talking about how Caucasians are the majority in the USA. It's been proven that there are more African-Americans and Hispanics in the USA now then Caucasians so Caucasians are now a minority.

What is means would be that Caucasians should now be getting the benefits that the former minorities have. That bad thing is that I don't see this happening because the African American's cant get past that whole slavery thing even though its been about 2 or 3 generations since that all happened.


To Jordon - Id like to request that the next debate topic be on why these groups of people cant move past what happened.

:suspect:

that's funny... i could have sworn those videos of firehoses and police dogs was from the 60s... and 70s... hmmm.... :roll:

I think its funny how people pretend the Civil War marked the end of the atrocities African-Americans have been subjected to while in this country.

yes, things are much better now than they were in the 60s... but come on... my parents were in college when that happened!!!! Might as well have been yesterday.

I label your post stupid.

i highly doubt that black people are the majority population in the US...in fact im going to say your wrong without even checking.

and you would be right to do so.
The US is 80% white.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

I think I heard that this might change by 2050.

[DINAMO788]

the point is.....the problems affecting minorities can be solved if they decide to work together and solve them. its no longer "the man" thats holding them down. they are holding themselves down.

[DayWalker]

the point is.....the problems affecting minorities can be solved if they decide to work together and solve them. its no longer "the man" thats holding them down. they are holding themselves down.

to some extent I agree with you.
But it would be naive to think the racism isn't still prevalent in the country... even if it is more "underground" than it used to be.

[Blu-Ray]

I have a question: Am I allowed to post in here if I'm not in the club?

[DayWalker]

I have a question: Am I allowed to post in here if I'm not in the club?

I think Jordan resigned so i say go for it

[DINAMO788]

i can veto that notion? just kidding :))....sorta

[momomike3]

Yes, racism is there. But the only way it will go away is for blacks to stop complaining about being oppressed, and working their way out of their problems. A hard worker will always be successful. The level of success will vary, but success will come.

[DayWalker]

Yes, racism is there. But the only way it will go away is for blacks to stop complaining about being oppressed, and working their way out of their problems. A hard worker will always be successful. The level of success will vary, but success will come.

:suspect:

again... I partially agree... the individual does have responsibilities...

But if you can't get a job or move up in a company b/c of your color then what does hard work have to do with it? (just an example)

[DINAMO788]

well what about the black people who hold high positions usually reserved for the white man? they were more qualified...why yes, i think thats it

[DayWalker]

well what about the black people who hold high positions usually reserved for the white man? they were more qualified...why yes, i think thats it

what the hell are you talking about?

if the position was "reserved for the white man" then that's racism :roll:

[DINAMO788]

im saying you cant control racism ,but you can overcome it. my example, a black guy getting a high position that is usually reserved for "the man".

[DayWalker]

im saying you cant control racism ,but you can overcome it. my example, a black guy getting a high position that is usually reserved for "the man".

... ok...

:lol:

so wouldn't that be an example of non-racism? not overcoming racism ;)

[DINAMO788]

no because the boss wanted the white guy because he likes white people more but the black guy was better qualified so even with the boss's racism he picked the blackguy because he was better qualified and overcame racism