What is Bush real reason for going to War?

[SuperSJ-PS3]

First of all, I can't believe that Bush won the election second time around. Second, I hope that ours next president won't be like Bush. Now watch the video and see for youself, the man made alot of good point about Bush and his obsession with war.

Update with new video, because the old one was removed by youtube.com. Don't be surprise...
www.zeitgeistmovie.com

My new page of course...
http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=113119

[bnolan56]

Honestly, who really cares? this discussion/ argument is so old its terrible. Everyone always has to complain about Bush. Keep your opinions to yourself, stop making 40 We Hate Bush threads please.

[Firefox]

Well Canadians hate bush (not him but his policies) because of Iraq and the administration's opinion on Maher Arar...so for everyone who's looking for change in America I post again:

Barack Obama 2008!

http://johnstodderinexile.wordpress.com/files/2006/06/barack-obama.jpg

[ninjaboy]

I think the reason for going to war is exactly what Bush says it is, not for oil like some liberals would like you to believe. Maybe Iraq isn't the right place to go to war, but I think it's because of honest stupidity, not oil or anything else. Bush has the right motives, but he's just in the wrong place.

[SolidSnakeUS]

He thinks he can control the world (impossible), stop all terrorist acts (impossible), get as much oil control as possible (impossible, but he's trying his damnedest), to just go against Liberals (such as myself), scare everybody (only Reagan could do that). Personally, I HATE EVERYTHING he stands for.

[roadkill]

Honestly, who really cares?

The families of 700,000 Iraqis? The families of 3,000 americans? The World in general? Millions of Iranians who don't want to be part of something 10 times worse than Chernobyl?

this discussion/ argument is so old its terrible.

To the contrary it is very in the present/future and concerns all of us.

Everyone always has to complain about Bush. Keep your opinions to yourself, stop making 40 We Hate Bush threads please.

Bush is a war criminal on the loose, what do you expect other than complaints?


As for the topic - why did Bush really go to war... There are several reasons, but the main reason is;

In 2000, Saddam opened an oil bourse. Simply put, he demanded Euro for the oil he sold instead of the dollar - changing it from petrodollar to PetroEuro. Oil is the most lucrative hard currency on Earth, if people buy oil using the dollar, the dollar stays afloat. If people buy oil in Euro, the Euro benefits. If people stop buying oil using the dollar, the US economy is put under severe strain. If people stop buying oil using the Euro, the Euro doesn't suffer as much seeing as how the Euro is healthier than the dollar.

The U.S. is in heavy national debt, which means any further strain placed upon the dollar cannot be tolerated.

Saddam refused to budge, sanctions, threats etc were thrown at him, yet still he insisted on the PetroEuro. Eventually, the only thing that would work was a "regime change". And thus, you have several excuses created for invading Iraq;

1) Saddam was involved in 9/11 (Proven lie).
2) Saddam was housing Al Qaeda (Another lie).
3) Saddam had WMD's - concerning Saddams WMD's...

i - The idea he had WMD's was a proven lie, again
ii - Whether he had WMD's was non of the USA's business, invasion on account of him having them would still have been illegal
iii - If he had WMD's, why didn't he use them against the USA/Coalition while they were illegally invading him? Answer - because he didn't have any (proven time and again).


Note for those with common sense: Iran's President has in recent times spoken of an oil bourse. Bush has in recent times spoken of Iran developing WMD's. Nothing but simple logic is required here.

[kray]

The American public is ignorant beyond belief.

The fact that the US invaded Iraq due to the belief of WMD's was not a lie. British, French, and US intelligence ALL believed that Iraq had WMD's. So you blaim Bush solely for the mistake that three different countries intelligence agencies made? Also, Saddam had proven in the past that he could not be trusted when it came to the production and use of WMD's. You can not prove that he did not have WMD's in 2001 either. Coalition forces found traces of chemical agents in the waters of Iraq but it was not a large enough sample to prove anything. They also had numurous missiles that were capable of carrying such WMD's. These weapons could have easily have been transported into Syria or Iran prior to our invasion.

Next, you asked why they did not use any when we invaded? The US attacked with so much force, speed, and accuracy that we literally left their forces stunned and unorganized. Our miltary attacked with such force and speed that we found thousands of ammunitions that were still in bunkers and on trucks.

The fact that we never found conclusive evidence to support the fact that they had WMD's is besides the fact. If you see a bully punching kids in school, are you going to give him that same opportunity to punch you when he walks by you or are you going to take him down first? Saddam was the bully and had shown that he was willing to create and use WMD's in the past, how long are you willing to wait before you gets to you?

[Carsonal]

The families of 3,000 americans?

3131 americans.
But by the time you read this it might be more like 3150

[momomike3]

3-5 Million Iraqis killed by Saddam?

You liberals should learn to research before you start blabbering.

Bush is not a war criminal, Saddam broke the UN ceasefire SEVENTEEN TIMES, allowing us to invade. We could have come in when he broke it the FIRST time.

Saddam was proven not to have DIRECT ties to Al Qaeda, however there were indirect channels that he worked through.

Lastly, all of you canadians and europeans, when you have the greatest economy and army in the world you can critique our politicians. Until then, work on not being socialists.

[BingBing]

He wants the Oil. abajjisdfb

[kennethw]

If you see a bully punching kids in school, are you going to give him that same opportunity to punch you when he walks by you or are you going to take him down first?

Ironically, this is an argument that's being used against the US right now. Who's the bully?

[kennethw]

Saddam was proven not to have DIRECT ties to Al Qaeda, however there were indirect channels that he worked through.

But the US armed them by supplying weapons to the Afghani Mujahideen to fight against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Our ties to this are quite direct. No one's nose is clean here. Regarding Hussein's bullying, see the following links:

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2773
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/03/sp_world_battle022703.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SrijoovKeo

[DayWalker]

3-5 Million Iraqis killed by Saddam?

You liberals should learn to research before you start blabbering.

Bush is not a war criminal, Saddam broke the UN ceasefire SEVENTEEN TIMES, allowing us to invade. We could have come in when he broke it the FIRST time.

Saddam was proven not to have DIRECT ties to Al Qaeda, however there were indirect channels that he worked through.

Lastly, all of you canadians and europeans, when you have the greatest economy and army in the world you can critique our politicians. Until then, work on not being socialists.



funny... I could have sworn that Saddam had been in power since the 70's (ok maybe early 80s)

We funded his military as be battled Iran... and then 30 years later we decided he wasn't a very nice guy...

I fear that oil is a very real part of the the reason we went into Iraq. And I think we used the potential of him having WMDs to justify it.

The removal of an evil dictator rhetoric doesn't fly.
If it were true then America would be actively putting down the genocides that happen in Africa monthly. Which we don't... b/c... they don't have oil. (not all of Africa anyways)

I guess N. Koreas Kim is a pretty nice guy too right now huh?
:roll:

Some of you are a little naive.

[roadkill]

3-5 Million Iraqis killed by Saddam?

You liberals should learn to research before you start blabbering.

Bush is not a war criminal, Saddam broke the UN ceasefire SEVENTEEN TIMES, allowing us to invade. We could have come in when he broke it the FIRST time.

Saddam was proven not to have DIRECT ties to Al Qaeda, however there were indirect channels that he worked through.

Lastly, all of you canadians and europeans, when you have the greatest economy and army in the world you can critique our politicians. Until then, work on not being socialists.

Nice logic there - "You can't critisize us when we do something wrong because we are powerful". And americans wonder why their popularity has taken a dip.

Anyway, for a start, you don't have the greatest economy on Earth, in fact its an utter disaster now stretching into trillions in debt. Secondly, as for the greatest army in the World - yes extremely powerful (although ultimately a cancer on the economy) - but not untouchable.

One thing that annoys me about americans is that when people attack their government, they see it as an attack of all americans. I like to think there are many decent americans who can see their leaders for what they are.

[admartian]

Nice logic there - "You can't critisize us when we do something wrong because we are powerful". And americans wonder why their popularity has taken a dip.

Anyway, for a start, you don't have the greatest economy on Earth, in fact its an utter disaster now stretching into trillions in debt. Secondly, as for the greatest army in the World - yes extremely powerful (although ultimately a cancer on the economy) - but not untouchable.

One thing that annoys me about americans is that when people attack their government, they see it as an attack of all americans. I like to think there are many decent americans who can see their leaders for what they are.


Completely agree with you there mate.

As for the reasons of going to war, there are plenty. But the one thing is, the intentions weren't entirely 'for the good of the people'.;)

[kennethw]

Nice logic there - "You can't critisize us when we do something wrong because we are powerful". And americans wonder why their popularity has taken a dip.

This sort of chest-thumping doesn't represent all of us, for the record. :)

[momomike3]

Well, that debt has not hurt us so far, so thanks for using facts!

One thing that annoys me is when europeans can't realize that we run the world whether they like it or not. The 19th century is gone fellas. If you want to get involved with our politics MOVE HERE, if not, shut up. All of europe is turning socialist, and their economies STILL can't get near us.

And why do I care if europe approves of my country? Well the POWERS in europe (england and france) SUPPORTED bush to go into Iraq. Even BUSH admitted to his mistakes in Iraq. Its a terrible situation, and hindsight is 20/20. The liberals LOVE ripping on bush when many of them voted for us to go to Iraq. If we could go back NO ONE would go to Iraq, but we can't. We might as well finish the job, then let it be and have to do it again.

[^Sex_with_Satan^]

Yeah THE POWER France :lol:

and i heard americas economy is in a "crisis"?! true or not the world will change big time in the next decade (China rising etc.).....ill just sit and wait for the screams

[Gargamel82]

Your stupid *** president just wanted to control oil in that region and finish the job daddy didn't back in the 90's.....sad, pathetic president that calls the kettle black so often. I can't wait till someone with a brain actually gets into parliment and stops screwing up the reputation of a country that has so much potential yet throws it away at the drop of a hat.
American people are getting a bad reputation oon the whole because of this leader, and I know that all americans aren't bad or evil or like the leader that they voted in. The ones I have met are mostly nice, friendly and have a good head on thier shoulders, but the general community is getting a bad taste in their mouth with all the lies, and a man who is just wrong in every sense of the word.
I feel sorry for every American not because of who they are, but because of what their leader has made them an their country into.

[Violator]

Your stupid *** president just wanted to control oil in that region and finish the job daddy didn't back in the 90's.....sad, pathetic president that calls the kettle black so often. I can't wait till someone with a brain actually gets into parliment and stops screwing up the reputation of a country that has so much potential yet throws it away at the drop of a hat.
American people are getting a bad reputation oon the whole because of this leader, and I know that all americans aren't bad or evil or like the leader that they voted in. The ones I have met are mostly nice, friendly and have a good head on thier shoulders, but the general community is getting a bad taste in their mouth with all the lies, and a man who is just wrong in every sense of the word.
I feel sorry for every American not because of who they are, but because of what their leader has made them an their country into.

Amen to that, man.

America needs to vote for the right reasons next election. None of this "Revenge for 9/11" stuff.

[roadkill]

Well, that debt has not hurt us so far, so thanks for using facts!

You economy is using fiat currency. It's almost at 9 Trillion in National debt. Do the words economic collapse mean anything to you? You economy is a disaster and your Government has to attack other Countries in order to try and sustain it.

It may seem like you're living in the richest Country in the World, but thats like saying you're rich when you eventually pay around 20 dollars for some bread.

The Euro is actually much healthier than the dollar.

One thing that annoys me is when europeans can't realize that we run the world whether they like it or not. The 19th century is gone fellas. If you want to get involved with our politics MOVE HERE, if not, shut up. All of europe is turning socialist, and their economies STILL can't get near us.

And why do I care if europe approves of my country? Well the POWERS in europe (england and france) SUPPORTED bush to go into Iraq. Even BUSH admitted to his mistakes in Iraq. Its a terrible situation, and hindsight is 20/20. The liberals LOVE ripping on bush when many of them voted for us to go to Iraq. If we could go back NO ONE would go to Iraq, but we can't. We might as well finish the job, then let it be and have to do it again.

If you could go back, your government would invade Iraq again, and you'd have no say whatsoever in it. Saddam opened an oil bourse in 2000 and sold his oil in PetroEuro (which boosted an already healthy Euro, and kicked an already critical dollar in the nuts).

Ahmedinejad has opened another oil bourse, just like Saddam did in 2000. PetroEuro vs. PetroDollar. All of a sudden, we're hearing the "WMD" bells again.

I've been called a Nazi, Fascist, Nationalist etc before, but never a liberal/socialist. American Republicans seem to think anyone who disagrees with Bush is a "liberal". Incase you haven't noticed, everyone from every end of the political spectrum disagrees with the Bush administration. Real american conservatives hate bush, only idiots follow him. People who attempt to defend bush have no business getting involved in politics.

[Tetsu]

Some of you people need to pay attention in school. Or I dunno, maybe all the school systems suck now. Our news media certainly does, you can't count on them telling the truth as it is.

The truth is, the Arab Islamic world has been planning a worldwide jihad ever since the radical Moslems took over in the 70s. They basically hate everybody. If you want examples, remember, if you even got news on this, of how the Taliban in Afghanistan destroyed some ancient Buddhist sites that angered the world, among other things, and racical Moslems are fighting wars and causing terrorism all over the world, and have for decades, in Russia, the Balkans, Africa, India, Indonesia, Thailand, the Phillippines, etc, places that have nothing at all to do with America.

However they've focused their attention on America since the 80s because we refuse to let them commit genocide in Israel and destroy it to the fetus. We've had dozens of acts of terrorism commited against our people. That idiot Bill Clinton (or maybe I should say Hillary) and his goofy sidekick Al Gore did almost nothing to stop it. He could have had Osama BinLaden in Somalia, but because he treated everything like it was some kind of traffic violation, he let the dastard go because he didn't think he had a good lega beef with the guy. Whatta couple of loosers.

You guys in Europe who are having problems with these idiot radicals, especially France, are just ignoring the trends. Theo Van Gough, grandson of Vincent Van G, being murdered was just the most notorious example. You guys are next, you just don't know it. Ignorance can only be bliss for so long.

[DayWalker]

:lol:

speaking of debt...
Whatever happened to all that money the US fronted the EU post WWII???

hmmmm....

[Stevie Carnage]

America was attacked, Bush had to do something.

That's pretty much the reason America went to war.

[Porky Pine]

America was attacked, Bush had to do something.

That's pretty much the reason America went to war.

Except that attacking Iraq for 9/11 makes as much sense as attacking Canada for Peal Harbor.

[momomike3]

Roadkill, obviously you can't see that your entire continent is liberal. I have yet to hear ONE person who has said they would go into Iraq again if they could go back. OUR government would not have gone back in because we did not realize the Iraqis incompetence to control their country.

Saying all politicians go against the Bush administration is a lie. SOME republicans have parted ways, but it is not even a majority of them. And believe me I do not side with bush on many issues ie. immigration. He took a very nice route towards the mexicans, where he should have deported all of the illegals and sealed the border. 10% of all illegals from mexico have a criminal record, thats 1 million people. Come in legally or stay the hell out.

The WMD bell is ringing because those people hate america, israel, and the UK more than anything in the world. NONE of the politicians in Washington want Iran to get nuclear weapons, because their country is WAY too instable and hateful. They could very easily nuke Israel and start WWIII. So does the US have to save europe again? Because we've done it twice.

[Tetsu]

Israel might have to save us the trouble once more, like they did in Iraq back in 1981. Iran has the technology and is pulling the strings around the world. And unlike the rest of the world, they know that a huge target is on all their citizens.

[girlgamer1984]

3-5 Million Iraqis killed by Saddam?

You liberals should learn to research before you start blabbering.

Bush is not a war criminal, Saddam broke the UN ceasefire SEVENTEEN TIMES, allowing us to invade. We could have come in when he broke it the FIRST time.

Saddam was proven not to have DIRECT ties to Al Qaeda, however there were indirect channels that he worked through.

Lastly, all of you canadians and europeans, when you have the greatest economy and army in the world you can critique our politicians. Until then, work on not being socialists.

Ok I don't understand first US feeds this guy and then decides that he's bad? And which indirect links are you talking about? Saddam never had any links to AL Qadea(I don't even think this organization exists.). Bush wanted oil there is no doubt about that. False intelligence reports is just plain bull****. There were no WMD's to begin with. US just needed a reason to invade Iraq just like now they need it now to invade Iran.

[roadkill]

Roadkill, obviously you can't see that your entire continent is liberal.

I've never made any claims to the contrary.

I have yet to hear ONE person who has said they would go into Iraq again if they could go back.

I wasn't talking about just any old people, i was talking about the people who could/did/would make it happen again. The american public have no say.

OUR government would not have gone back in because we did not realize the Iraqis incompetence to control their country.

1) Your government would have gone in again, because the oil bourse still stood. Your problem is that you're under the illusion that Iraq was invaded for some other reason.

2) Iraqi incompetence? Man i don't even know where to start with this one, such such ignorance is just mind numbing.

Saying all politicians go against the Bush administration is a lie. SOME republicans have parted ways, but it is not even a majority of them. And believe me I do not side with bush on many issues ie. immigration. He took a very nice route towards the mexicans, where he should have deported all of the illegals and sealed the border. 10% of all illegals from mexico have a criminal record, thats 1 million people. Come in legally or stay the hell out.

Like i said, real american conservatives hate Bush, whether they are in the minority or the majority...


The WMD bell is ringing because those people hate america, israel, and the UK more than anything in the world.

The WMD bell is ringing because the US/UK/Israel are the ones ringing it. The problem with that is they cannot be trusted, since they have a track record of lying about "WMD's". Also, its been independently proven Iran aren't seeking Nuclear arms.

NONE of the politicians in Washington want Iran to get nuclear weapons,

And Iran (among many other Countries) don't like the fact the U.S. has nuclear weapons, because they have a dangerous and unstable regime which threatens and invades others. The USA hasn't got the right to tell Iran what they can and can't do.

because their country is WAY too instable and hateful.

Actually Iran is a united and productive Nation, they're no worse than anyone else. This is quite frankly rhetorical bull****.

They could very easily nuke Israel and start WWIII.

There are only 2 Countries currently threatening WWIII, and Iran isn't one of them.

So does the US have to save europe again? Because we've done it twice.

Well i'm sorry to tell you, but in WWII Russia destroyed the German army, the allies in the West were poking at what was more or less a corpse and claimed victory.

As for saving us again, save us from who? The European continent is about the worst place on Earth anyone could try to invade, now that we're done fighting amongst ourselves.

It would probably be the other way around. You think america can remain in Afghanistan and Iraq while fighting a 12 million+ strong Iranian army, and then possibly Russia? In the event of Russia stepping in, USA can't do it alone.

And by the way, america is rapidly losing support of her allies with these madcap raids.

[the jackle.2]

Well Canadians hate bush (not him but his policies) because of Iraq and the administration's opinion on Maher Arar...so for everyone who's looking for change in America I post again:

Barack Obama 2008!

http://johnstodderinexile.wordpress.com/files/2006/06/barack-obama.jpg


Why the hell would we vote for him???give me a few reasons or even his policies,but please dont just say vote for him for no resaon

[kray]

I guess all of you that are against Bush absolutely loved Bill Clinton right? He made America look great to Europe when he was in office right?

Bill Clinton had the opportunity to take Bin Laden into custody 3 times and did not do so.
Bill Clinton Pulled out of Mogadishu after 19 American's lost their lives which in turn made America look weak in the eyes of the world.
Bill Clinton lied publicly by saying "I smoked pot but I never enhailed..."

Bush on the other hand went into Iraq when Europe and Australia supported the invasion and intends to finish the job instead of backing out which would in turn hurt America's image even more (portraying us as even weaker than before).
Bush is a man of his word instead of shifting his views for popularity.

But yet Bush followers are all idiots right?

I guess those of you who are against Bush agree with Global Warming too?

[kray]

edited because I accidently posted twice... sorry.

[momomike3]

The american people DO have a say. If the nation felt THAT strongly about the war, they could make it happen. The fact of the matter is, most people disagree with the war, but not enough to pull our people out. The only people acting out are the looneys from moveon.org and Cindy Sheehans worshippers. The rational people in the united states believe it is a bad situation, but pulling out immediately would be down right stupid. I live in the US, I hear about the war every day from AMERICANS, not europeans.

You think Iran is stable? That's kind of weird considering economists think their inflation AND unemployment is sitting at around 30%. They are willing to break UN sanctions just to get nuclear energy? Even though they are a leading provider of crude oil in the world? I think they have enough energy.

[kennethw]

The only people acting out are the looneys from moveon.org and Cindy Sheehans worshippers.

Bull****. I live in San Francisco, and there's a downtown-choking rally here pretty frequently. And it's not just SF.

You're making the rest of us look bad by telling the rest of the world that we're not trying to do something about it. The truth is, this administration has built and reinforced an incredible mob mentality that not being a right wing conservative (with money), and voicing your opinions, makes you Unamerican... to the point of passing rights-restricting laws and making people think they don't have a choice.

Just utter bull****.

[momomike3]

The sad thing is... it IS just san fran. That is the most liberal city in the nation. I have yet to see or hear of a rally outside of california or DC. I'm sure they have some in NYC too, but they sure aren't on the news.

[kennethw]

The sad thing is... it IS just san fran. That is the most liberal city in the nation. I have yet to see or hear of a rally outside of california or DC. I'm sure they have some in NYC too, but they sure aren't on the news.

The problem isn't that they're not happening, it's that they're not on the news...

[kray]

Cindy Sheehan is disgracing her son who died honorably serving his country and I think that if her and her followers follow through with their idea of going to Cuba and protesting on the Cuban side of the fence at Gitmo then we should not allow them back into the country.

To clarify on the subject, I am a very strong conservative and understand that there are many people that do not see the same as I do. I am not against protesting because people do have the right to freedom of speech, but there is a such thing as taking it too far.

[momomike3]

If they're happening then there must be some traces of them on the internet... or no one would know where to go. How about you dig some of those up for me.

[Supaman²²³]

I guess all of you that are against Bush absolutely loved Bill Clinton right? He made America look great to Europe when he was in office right?

Bill Clinton had the opportunity to take Bin Laden into custody 3 times and did not do so.
Bill Clinton Pulled out of Mogadishu after 19 American's lost their lives which in turn made America look weak in the eyes of the world.
Bill Clinton lied publicly by saying "I smoked pot but I never enhailed..."

Bush on the other hand went into Iraq when Europe and Australia supported the invasion and intends to finish the job instead of backing out which would in turn hurt America's image even more (portraying us as even weaker than before).
Bush is a man of his word instead of shifting his views for popularity.

But yet Bush followers are all idiots right?

I guess those of you who are against Bush agree with Global Warming too?


Lol, your Sig says it all!

[admartian]

I guess all of you that are against Bush absolutely loved Bill Clinton right? He made America look great to Europe when he was in office right?

Bill Clinton had the opportunity to take Bin Laden into custody 3 times and did not do so.
Bill Clinton Pulled out of Mogadishu after 19 American's lost their lives which in turn made America look weak in the eyes of the world.
Bill Clinton lied publicly by saying "I smoked pot but I never enhailed..."

Bush on the other hand went into Iraq when Europe and Australia supported the invasion and intends to finish the job instead of backing out which would in turn hurt America's image even more (portraying us as even weaker than before).
Bush is a man of his word instead of shifting his views for popularity.

But yet Bush followers are all idiots right?

I guess those of you who are against Bush agree with Global Warming too?

Wait, you're supporting a war based on the fact America might look weak?

First of all, to many countries, America doesn't look weak; just stubborn, arrogant and ignorant.

I understand the importance of image in world politics, but there has to be a point where you say enough is enough.

[Supaman²²³]

Wait, you're supporting a war based on the fact America might look weak?

First of all, to many countries, America doesn't look weak; just stubborn, arrogant and ignorant.

I understand the importance of image in world politics, but there has to be a point where you say enough is enough.

People like him don't see how wasteful this war until they lose a loved one, but unfortunately its too late then!

[kray]

People like him don't see how wasteful this war until they lose a loved one, but unfortunately its too late then!

Until they lose a loved one? I am in the military and I am a veteran of this war. I am also looking forward to going back because that is where my country needs me to be and I am proud to serve my country. I have a wife, 2 children, and a third on the way and I do think about them when I volunteer for certain jobs within the military that will put me in harms way, but I also know that they understand how I feel about serving my country and about this war in general.

[admartian]

Until they lose a loved one? I am in the military and I am a veteran of this war. I am also looking forward to going back because that is where my country needs me to be and I am proud to serve my country. I have a wife, 2 children, and a third on the way and I do think about them when I volunteer for certain jobs within the military that will put me in harms way, but I also know that they understand how I feel about serving my country and about this war in general.


So do you believe that the 'coalition' should stay in Iraq no matter the cost to anybody, and that means the effect that will have on the entire world and more importantly to families of soldiers such as yours, and again all for the sake of image?


However, prayers/luck/charms/etc to you out there man if/when you do go back.

[Supaman²²³]

Until they lose a loved one? I am in the military and I am a veteran of this war. I am also looking forward to going back because that is where my country needs me to be and I am proud to serve my country. I have a wife, 2 children, and a third on the way and I do think about them when I volunteer for certain jobs within the military that will put me in harms way, but I also know that they understand how I feel about serving my country and about this war in general.

How are you serving your country?

[Tetsu]

Ok I don't understand first US feeds this guy and then decides that he's bad? And which indirect links are you talking about? Saddam never had any links to AL Qadea(I don't even think this organization exists.). Bush wanted oil there is no doubt about that. False intelligence reports is just plain bull****. There were no WMD's to begin with. US just needed a reason to invade Iraq just like now they need it now to invade Iran.
Well, there are a few glaring errors in that post.

Saddam Hussein was in the earlier 80s actually pretty progressive. Iraq is still one of the few Islamc countries where women go to school and hold positions of power.

Bill Clinton trumpeted the very same intelligence when he was in office. So did every democrat. His guys collected it.

But it is true that Saddam had links to all sorts of terrorist groups. There was a training ground with a mockup of an airliner in Iraq, and Saddam harbored a number of terrorist leaders. He even paid the families of suicide bombers.

There was an incident a couple of years ago where a truckload of toxic agents failed to detonate in Jordan in an attempted coup or terrorist attack. That could have only come from one country. There were also a very large collection of parts to chemical weapons making apparatus on docks in Jordan and Syria, and they came from... guess where?

Sadly, the lack of good information can be laid right at the feet of our one party dominated media and education system.

[Porky Pine]

I guess all of you that are against Bush absolutely loved Bill Clinton right?

Having fun knocking that strawman of yours? How about we don't think he was quite as bad as Bush? He wasn't great, NAFTA cost me my job and the telecomunication act was a travesty but at least when he lied, no one died.

We were also running a surplus when he was president.

He made America look great to Europe when he was in office right?


As compared to what Bush has done to our image? Yes.

Bill Clinton had the opportunity to take Bin Laden into custody 3 times and did not do so.

Can you name me these 3 times please?

Bill Clinton Pulled out of Mogadishu after 19 American's lost their lives which in turn made America look weak in the eyes of the world.

I guess Clinton wasn't worried about how the world thought of the size of his ***** and more worried about getting the troops out of a unwinnable war.

Bill Clinton lied publicly by saying "I smoked pot but I never enhailed..."

Yeah, so? Is this supposed to be damning or something?

Bush on the other hand went into Iraq when Europe and Australia supported the invasion

And those were about the only 2 that did (other than a smattering of countries that were too afraid to say "no") Tell me, what was the ratio of troops England and Australia sent over to help out and are they staying there in the long term?

and intends to finish the job instead of backing out which would in turn hurt America's image even more (portraying us as even weaker than before).

This reminds me of a funny quote from Futurama.
Zap Branigan:You see, Killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent
wave after wave of my own men at them, until they reached their limit and shutdown.
Kif, show them the medal I won.

Yeah, bush is happy sending wave after wave of other people's children to fight and die. What about his two daughters? Would he be as happy to do it if they were on the front lines? Sometimes, I think the draft should be reinstated just to make politicians more reluctant to wage war if their own flesh and blood are on the line.

Bush is a man of his word instead of shifting his views for popularity.

Do you know the definition of insanity?

But yet Bush followers are all idiots right?


If the shoe fits...

I guess those of you who are against Bush agree with Global Warming too?

Whoops! There goes another strawman!

[momomike3]

First, Supaman you should be ashamed for saying that. Even if you don't support the war, support the troops for God's sake. I have all of the respect in the world for kray, or any soldier that is willing to lay their life on the line for their country.

Secondly, kray is right about Bush acting for the best of the country. Easiest example is Lincoln. He had one of the lowest approval ratings ever, yet now he is considered the greatest president. He will do what he believes is best for America, not what the media wants to hear.

[kennethw]

If they're happening then there must be some traces of them on the internet... or no one would know where to go. How about you dig some of those up for me.

Here's a start. You can look up some other stuff squelched by the liberal media while you're here.

http://www.guerrillanews.com/

[kennethw]

First, Supaman you should be ashamed for saying that.

I interpreted it as "in what way are you serving your country?", as in, "hey, what's your job?" How dare he question a man in uniform. ;)

[Porky Pine]

Secondly, kray is right about Bush acting for the best of the country.

Running the country into debt by the trillions, domestic spying, holding people in prison for more than 2 years without charging them for crimes, removing habeas corpus from certain undersirables and shipping other undesirables to other countries to be tortured is working in the best interests of us? I hope not.

[girlgamer1984]

Having fun knocking that strawman of yours? How about we don't think he was quite as bad as Bush? He wasn't great, NAFTA cost me my job and the telecomunication act was a travesty but at least when he lied, no one died.

We were also running a surplus when he was president.



As compared to what Bush has done to our image? Yes.



Can you name me these 3 times please?



I guess Clinton wasn't worried about how the world thought of the size of his ***** and more worried about getting the troops out of a unwinnable war.



Yeah, so? Is this supposed to be damning or something?



And those were about the only 2 that did (other than a smattering of countries that were too afraid to say "no") Tell me, what was the ratio of troops England and Australia sent over to help out and are they staying there in the long term?



This reminds me of a funny quote from Futurama.


Yeah, bush is happy sending wave after wave of other people's children to fight and die. What about his two daughters? Would he be as happy to do it if they were on the front lines? Sometimes, I think the draft should be reinstated just to make politicians more reluctant to wage war if their own flesh and blood are on the line.



Do you know the definition of insanity?



If the shoe fits...



Whoops! There goes another strawman!

Lol I love your post. + rep

Well, there are a few glaring errors in that post.

Saddam Hussein was in the earlier 80s actually pretty progressive. Iraq is still one of the few Islamc countries where women go to school and hold positions of power.

Bill Clinton trumpeted the very same intelligence when he was in office. So did every democrat. His guys collected it.

But it is true that Saddam had links to all sorts of terrorist groups. There was a training ground with a mockup of an airliner in Iraq, and Saddam harbored a number of terrorist leaders. He even paid the families of suicide bombers.

There was an incident a couple of years ago where a truckload of toxic agents failed to detonate in Jordan in an attempted coup or terrorist attack. That could have only come from one country. There were also a very large collection of parts to chemical weapons making apparatus on docks in Jordan and Syria, and they came from... guess where?

Sadly, the lack of good information can be laid right at the feet of our one party dominated media and education system.
His guys collected which information? Saddam had no links to any terrorists. If you have any proof please show me. Chemical weapons in Jordan and Syria? What on earth are you talking about? And Iraq is not one of the few muslim countries where women go to school and get them selves educated. I think you're quite missinformed in this matter.

[Pr0LiFiX]

We all damn well know that the war is turning into another Vietnam...

I'm a liberal, so you can damn well know that I HATE BUSH!

[madeofsteel]

Come on you didnt think Bush would actually do things right by America do you??? I truly believe USA needs a female president to shake things up.

[Pr0LiFiX]

Come on you didnt think Bush would actually do things right by America do you??? I truly believe USA needs a female president to shake things up.
Nope. We need a man like Obama!

If we get a female in the white house, it'd be like putting Oprah into office.

It wouldn't work. :lol:

[madeofsteel]

LMAO ok ok maybe not, but that guy Obama has said some things about the deaths of soldiers that i thought kinda blew big time. I can understand being against the war or even wanting out but to say you are going to remove troops 2 months after you are PRES is not good. OSAMA if he owns a calender will circle that day.

[Pr0LiFiX]

LMAO ok ok maybe not, but that guy Obama has said some things about the deaths of soldiers that i thought kinda blew big time. I can understand being against the war or even wanting out but to say you are going to remove troops 2 months after you are PRES is not good. OSAMA if he owns a calender will circle that day.
Oh, wait...we should be talking about the war and Bush. :)

[momomike3]

That website believes that 9/11 is a conspiracy. Thanks for a CREDIBLE source.


And Prolifix go take a gander at obamas website. Most people that support him now have no clue where he is on the issues, he is just the "cool" candidate. I believe most dems who know what they're talking about would agree with that statement.

[Pr0LiFiX]

That website believes that 9/11 is a conspiracy.

I can't believe how people think that 9/11 is a conspiracy. That's sickening... :evil:

[madeofsteel]

Conspiracy is a big word.. Screwed up, dropped the ball, lied,denied,ignored all sound good in its place when thinking 9/11

[kennethw]

That website believes that 9/11 is a conspiracy. Thanks for a CREDIBLE source.

What are you talking about? A quick search yields an article about how conspiracies undermine the left:

http://www.gnn.tv/articles/2577/9_11_and_the_New_Pearl_Harbor_Part_I

Anything else that I found was just discussion about this stuff, actually stating several angles on various topics. You realize that open discussion of any given subject does not imply involvement or intent right? The current administration hasn't openly taken that right away yet, but they have obviously squelched our belief that we have the right to question anything that we want to without being anti-American.

[momomike3]

yeah you can question whatever you want. But questioning something that is the one of the most obvious acts is simply stupid.

And that same quick search gave me this
http://tenbob.gnn.tv/blogs/20470/Boston_Air_Traffic_Controller_Says_9_11_An_Inside_ Job

[kray]

To answer your question from quite a few posts ago: I am serving my country as the Weapons Officer and the Antiterrorism Force Protection Officer onboard a minesweeper and have operated in the river between Iraq and Kuwait that leads up to Uhm Qasar Iraq. I believe that what I did/do is serving my country, and I intend to volunteer for jobs that will allow me to be more involved in serving my country in the near future.

To get back onto the subject at hand: I believe that too many people vote on what their favorite t.v. channel/newspaper/actor promote and not on issues at hand. American's have lost all sense of faith and morals.

[ninjaboy]

Ironically, this is an argument that's being used against the US right now. Who's the bully?

Oh yes, I'm sure 9/11 couldn't be considered bullying :roll:.

[DayWalker]

I guess all of you that are against Bush absolutely loved Bill Clinton right? He made America look great to Europe when he was in office right?

Bill Clinton had the opportunity to take Bin Laden into custody 3 times and did not do so.
Bill Clinton Pulled out of Mogadishu after 19 American's lost their lives which in turn made America look weak in the eyes of the world.
Bill Clinton lied publicly by saying "I smoked pot but I never enhailed..."

Bush on the other hand went into Iraq when Europe and Australia supported the invasion and intends to finish the job instead of backing out which would in turn hurt America's image even more (portraying us as even weaker than before).
Bush is a man of his word instead of shifting his views for popularity.

But yet Bush followers are all idiots right?

I guess those of you who are against Bush agree with Global Warming too?

Um... you might want to look back and see wht the elephant party (who controlled congress) was doing when Clinton decided to pull out of Mogadisgu... look familiar???

Bush smoked crack and lied about it. What's your point? You never did anything stupid as a kid? If you are a military man I find that hard to believe. I know all to well the trouble/fun y'all get into ;)

Perhaps if the Repubs weren't so interested in a blow job Clinton could have gotten OBL. He missed him by a couple hours after the Cole bombing and actually got closer to killing him that Bush has :lol:

[kennethw]

yeah you can question whatever you want. But questioning something that is the one of the most obvious acts is simply stupid.

This still supposes that your original assertion about GNN was accurate. See below.

And that same quick search gave me this
http://tenbob.gnn.tv/blogs/20470/Boston_Air_Traffic_Controller_Says_9_11_An_Inside_ Job

Man, it's a report. No one ever said "We here at GNN believe x." I've seen reports of conspiracy theories on mainstream news. They're simply reporting what is easily considered newsworthy, whether the guy's a crackpot or not. People report on white supremacists all the time, it doesn't make them KKK. Don't you think that a person with actual experience in the field having a dissenting opinion on the subject is newsworthy?

This is the first paragraph of an article which is almost entirely quotes, even using words like "claims", not "proves" or "reveals":

"A former Boston Center air traffic controller has gone public on his assertion that 9/11 was an inside job and that Donald Rumsfeld and the Pentagon tracked three of the four flights from the point of their hijacking to hitting their targets. In an astounding telephone interview, Robin Hordon claims air traffic controllers have been ignored or silenced to protect the true perpetrators of 9/11."

[Pr0LiFiX]

Oh yes, I'm sure 9/11 couldn't be considered bullying :roll:.
It's just that people can't stop talking about it after almost 6 years, no offense! :roll:

[Knuckles126]

In my opinion........

9/11 was an inside job, planned and executed by the United States government on it's own people. Why? Very simple: To get the American people behind the government to go to war in the middle east and establish a new world empire there. Understand? We (America) want to be the rulers of the world...it's that simple.

Ontop of that, Saddam started pricing his oil in Euros...so he had to go. 60% of the remaining oil left on earth is in the middle eastern region, specifically Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. It makes perfect sense if you piece it all together.

If any of you are interested, check out this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XplJvk46Ses

[momomike3]

Prolifix we NEED to keep talking about it. How can you expect to forget a cowardly act against thousands of innocent victims? A huge problem in the US is that people HAVE forgotten about it, unless they were directly affected. We need to remember that these people want nothing more than to destroy our country and culture.

Good joke Knuckles. Strangely enough the easiest debunking of this is from maddox. You all know who he is. If they have no problem killing thousands of its' own citizens, why not just kill the guys with the suspicion? Or destroy their stuff? Give me a break. Loose change is simply a way to blame Bush for something else, because remember, he caused Katrina too.

[Porky Pine]

As much as I hate Bush, I can't stand the "reasoning" that 9/11 conspirators use. I 've heard everything from the Jews were behind it to the planes were unmanned drones and none of it makes a lick of sense from a practical standpoint. This govt doesn't even have the ability to plant WMD's in Iraq to fool people into thinking they were right to invade Iraq but we're expected to believe that they have the ability to pull off 9/11?

Anyway, how did this thread get turned into a 9/11 conspiracy thread?

[justintheman99]

In my opinion........

9/11 was an inside job, planned and executed by the United States government on it's own people. Why? Very simple: To get the American people behind the government to go to war in the middle east and establish a new world empire there. Understand? We (America) want to be the rulers of the world...it's that simple.

Ontop of that, Saddam started pricing his oil in Euros...so he had to go. 60% of the remaining oil left on earth is in the middle eastern region, specifically Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. It makes perfect sense if you piece it all together.

If any of you are interested, check out this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XplJvk46Ses

This is exactly how I feel as well. I am sorry to all US members here but I feel that the leaders of your naton are evil, and only have one thing on the agenda. World Domination.

[kennethw]

Anyway, how did this thread get turned into a 9/11 conspiracy thread?

Someone tried to make it sound like a source for alternative media that I mentioned (in reference to there being active objection to what the current administration is shoveling on us) was worthless because they "believe" that 9/11 is a conspiracy. So it went sideways from there.

[Wheezy69]

Bush is not really at war. The U.S. is now the new Roman Empire. We have global bases is almost every advantagable location on the globe. This is all stratigically mapped/planned out by the government to have global domination in the world. Missle defense systems in the U.K., to the domination of Afghanistan. Alaska, hundreds of miles away from the U.S mainland which is just miles away from Russia is occupied by the U.S for a reason. The reason we have hawaii is for a reason, not just because of "nice weather". Its all for Strategic location for global domination (pearl harbor the biggest naval base in the world). We went into a 4th world country to find one man who we still have not found after 6 years. Why? Because we don't care about him anymore. Do the American people ever hear anything about Osama Bin Laden anymore? No, because he doesn't matter anymore. He was nothing but the golden ticket to give us reason to invade the middle east. What was the advantage of invading Afganistan, some people might ask. What borders Afganistan? The country that some might consider the biggest threat to the U.S., China. We now occupy a country that borders this threat which we could easily stike if stuck upon. Now, Iraq after invading Iraq we one, occupy another country but also border Iran who is another minor threat in the middle east, who has major economic ties with Russia. Alaska Borders Russia, Hawaii is in the middle of the pacific ocean which defends any Chinese attacks. We have two of the biggest oceans on each side of our country which is our biggest defense. We have military bases in, south korea, and mostly every other country in the world. The United States is playing a game of Risk. Global domination is in progress, and your witnessing it today as you read this. The United States financially controls the world, which was for years enough control. But with country's starting to step on toes, greed is setting in. We are not starting to physically dominate countries, untill its all under one world Super Power.
The United States of the WORLD. :cool:

[Axe&Hammer]

1. Its not Bush's reason to go to war,as our Congress "voted" for the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq is just an extension of that initial campaign(Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF))

2. The reason to go to war,was to destroy terrorist cells or other military entities responsible or in connection to the 9/11 attacks.

3.The overall reason for war,was to gain more influence over the area and in effect get the vital resources the said areas have.

[sfp3mak]

Purely profit.........

1.OIL
2.OIL
3.OIL
4.So companies like Haliburtin and BlackWater can have unregulated govt. contracts to rip off the troops (Haliburtin charges troops $46 for six cans of coke) and build cheap junky infrastructure while taking the leftover money.

Also note that it is no longer a war but an occupation, the war ended when Bush said, "Mission accomplished."

Can you believe he responded to a question from the media that he never said stay the course? What nerve.

In response: Sorry Mr. Bush, but there is this new thing called "video," although you may consider it the devil it allows the recording of important events and also you saying, "Stay the course" numerous times.:rolleyes:

As much as I hate Bush, I can't stand the "reasoning" that 9/11 conspirators use. I 've heard everything from the Jews were behind it to the planes were unmanned drones and none of it makes a lick of sense from a practical standpoint. This govt doesn't even have the ability to plant WMD's in Iraq to fool people into thinking they were right to invade Iraq but we're expected to believe that they have the ability to pull off 9/11?

Anyway, how did this thread get turned into a 9/11 conspiracy thread?
WTF? why do Jews get blamed for everything, we even get blamed for making up the holacaust!?!?!?:suspect::confused:

Govt. did not plan it, they just let it happen.:twisted:

[Axe&Hammer]

4.So companies like Haliburtin and BlackWater can have unregulated govt. contracts to rip off the troops
They are doing a poor job yes,but they are not ripping off the troops

(Haliburtin charges troops $46 for six cans of coke)
why would US infantry buy soda from a construction company,When there stores and restaurants in the green zone and on base?

and build cheap junky infrastructure while taking the leftover money.
a sad part of war,profiteers


Also note that it is no longer a war but an occupationOccupation is part of war

[sfp3mak]

They are doing a poor job yes,but they are not ripping off the troops

why would US infantry buy soda from a construction company,When there stores and restaurants in the green zone and on base?

a sad part of war,profiteers


Occupation is part of war
Haliburtin is a supply company that extends far wider than construction, which is why Bush claims they were the only corporation able to gain the contract they did.

Hal. is just stealing our money though, Black Water doesn't provide vehicles with a machine gun like they are supposed to and are getting civilians working for them killed, all to make a little bit more money:cry:

i think sodas on base are ones sold by hal, but it really doesn't matter its just an example.

Everybody should watch "Iraq for Sale: The War Profiteers" and "Outfoxed" both documentaries by Robert Greenwald, who isnt over the top like Moore, but drives his point home hard.

In Outfoxed they asked an independent company to poll viewers of Fox News and CNN/MSNBC/Other and one of the questions was, "Were weapons of Mass Destruction found in Iraq?" only 4% of CNN/MSNBC/Other viewers responded yes, while 28% of Fox News viewers responded yes.

Dictionary Definition of War from Merriam-Webster: "a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations" If I recall correctly we are no longer fighting a state, Suddam was overthrown and Iraq defeated, the occupation period then begun.

[Axe&Hammer]

Haliburtin is a supply company that extends far wider than construction, which is why Bush claims they were the only corporation able to gain the contract they did.
According to Halliburton's website they are in the fields of:

cementing,consulting,drilling,fluid services(regulation),computing,pipe-line services,reservoir testing and servicing,sand control,service tools(drills,tubing ect),drilling software,"stimulation",well completion & intervention, and wireline and perforating

KBR does build housing for US troops and prisons for POWs

but yeah... no food preparation or services

Black Water doesn't provide vehicles with a machine gun like they are supposed to and are getting civilians working for them killed, all to make a little bit more money:cry:
Blackwater USA is a PMC their safety standards are their's alone, those civilians working for them are Mercs



Dictionary Definition of War from Merriam-Webster: "a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations" If I recall correctly we are no longer fighting a state, Suddam was overthrown and Iraq defeated, the occupation period then begun.War is a conflict between two or more factions,Saddam was overthrown and the remants of his faction and other factions are fighting in a civil war and America and its allies are helping the New Iraqi government which too is a faction.

[girlgamer1984]

This thread is starting to get very interesting.

[Knuckles126]

Money. It's all about money. No one gives a **** about the Iraqi people. We want their OIL! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

OMG! TERROR!!! Please...it's such BS. Sure, there are terrorists in the world, but America is just straight up PARANOID about it.. :lol:

**** Cheney...it's all about that one individual.

EDIT: HA!!! It bleeped out his godforsaken name!

[momomike3]

Well obviously we care about the Iraqi people, considering one of the main reasons we are still there is so that millions don't get SLAUGHTERED. It's happened before in Cambodia, and we won't let it happen again.

You SHOULD care about terror, because they care a lot about killing you and your culture. It's not paranoia when it is an immenent threat.

And as I've said about your posts before, you have no substance to them. Give us a FACT or an intelligent THOUGHT rather than regurgitating "Oil, money, and corruption".

[splitman]

Well obviously we care about the Iraqi people, considering one of the main reasons we are still there is so that millions don't get SLAUGHTERED. It's happened before in Cambodia, and we won't let it happen again.

You SHOULD care about terror, because they care a lot about killing you and your culture. It's not paranoia when it is an immenent threat.

And as I've said about your posts before, you have no substance to them. Give us a FACT or an intelligent THOUGHT rather than regurgitating "Oil, money, and corruption".

Were you helpful or needed to Vietnamese people?What was the reason for that stupid war?( Silence, fly pass by)You just cant realize that your government lies,so they can fulfil "national objectives" and doing so they are using mass media to produce mass propaganda. Very:sleep: boring ,I now but it is true.It happened in my country too,and Im first to admit my country sins,but you Americans are so ignorant to your country faults its embarrassing...
You gotta change,nobody in the world likes you anymore...You produced many great things in the past and the world is grateful but now you are boring and annoying...(USA perception in general).This is OK,you live in your world and we live in ours but you just cant stay in yours,can you?Invading sovereign nation half of world away:suspect:
and make up the reasons along the way,who in the right mind can defend that!

[momomike3]

You very well know the reason we went. This was found to be untrue later, but there was a COMMONLY ACCEPTED idea that Iraq had WMD's. Along with that, they broke the UN ceasefire SEVENTEEN times. Our media is almost entirely liberal and against the war, so that is a moot point.

I have made it clear that if I was choosing to go to Iraq back in 03 with the knowledge I have now, I would not go. Hindsight is 20/20, however, we are there, and leaving is a much worse decision than going in the first place.

[splitman]

You very well know the reason we went. This was found to be untrue later, but there was a COMMONLY ACCEPTED idea that Iraq had WMD's. Along with that, they broke the UN ceasefire SEVENTEEN times. Our media is almost entirely liberal and against the war, so that is a moot point.

I have made it clear that if I was choosing to go to Iraq back in 03 with the knowledge I have now, I would not go. Hindsight is 20/20, however, we are there, and leaving is a much worse decision than going in the first place.

Here we go again:sleep:Let me ask you this:do you honestly think that you would"choose" to go in Iraq if 9/11 never happend?And it is comonly known that Sadam Hussein and Iraq have nothing to do with that.

Do you realise that USA people make decisions,and your leaders only shape them?Because 9/11 in fear you gave Bush and USA gouverment full suport for their actions,think about that...

[DayWalker]

Splitman is one of those people who thinks Iraq was comparable to Disney Land before the US got there. :roll:

[momomike3]

I just said I wouldn't go EVEN IF 9/11 happened with the knowledge we have now. So why would I go if it didn't? Read my post before you try to respond.

And yes, I gave Bush and the rest of our Government support of their actions by VOTING for them. The people have control by ELECTIONS, we ELECTED them and if we don't support what they are doing we don't RE-ELECT them. It's called a Republican Democracy... works real nicely.

[splitman]

Splitman is one of those people who thinks Iraq was comparable to Disney Land before the US got there. :roll:

It was million times better then now. Alot of **** was happening in Iraq before you come,of course.But that doesnt justify your presence there.And the people didnt invite you or ask for your help.
It isnt peach in North Korea but I dont see you invading them to help poor people:(
I said this million times:USA actions around the world are based on USA personal interests ,as we all know that USA is not a charity organisation(you cant-wont help poor and miserable people in your country)why would you care for people on another side of the world?

You could not care lees about Iraq before 9/11.It is amazing what heavy propaganda can do!Hitler was actually inspired by USA success in this field... Cant you see that your government fooled you?If you dont,then we have nothing to talk about.
Day Walker,you being black and have this Conservative pro republican view puzzles me.What have republicans done for your people?Instead billions of dollars spend in Iraq...What would you do with all that money?
And why Iraq?There are plenty of needed countries in Africa too.Why not help them?

I just said I wouldn't go EVEN IF 9/11 happened with the knowledge we have now. So why would I go if it didn't? Read my post before you try to respond.

And yes, I gave Bush and the rest of our Government support of their actions by VOTING for them. The people have control by ELECTIONS, we ELECTED them and if we don't support what they are doing we don't RE-ELECT them. It's called a Republican Democracy... works real nicely.

HaHaHa,and only you have democracy in the hole world!?Do you read my post?I said:would you go to Iraq(and by you I mean USA in generally) if hypotheticly 9/11 never happened?Do you understand my question?

[Axe&Hammer]

It was million times better then now.
More stable? yes, million times better? hell no





I said this million times:USA actions around the world are based on USA personal interests ,as we all know that USA is not a charity organisation


a nation focusing on its interests,my word I think you've got something :roll:


(you cant-wont help poor and miserable people in your country)
yeah cause croatia is the model of social perfection.



why would you care for people on another side of the world?


liberal gilt


It is amazing what heavy propaganda can do!

And How!



Day Walker,you being black and have this Conservative pro republican view puzzles me.

why? blacks like-my-self can too be republican

What have republicans done for your people?
Ended slavery:mrgreen:



Instead billions of dollars spend in Iraq...What would you do with all that money?


spend in on a ABMs and planes

There are plenty of needed countries in Africa too.Why not help them?
We do,well we try

[splitman]

[quote=Axe&Hammer;1126714]More stable? yes, million times better? hell no


Why dont you ask Iraqis what they think?You ignorant fool.

a nation focusing on its interests,my word I think you've got something :roll:

Again with stupidity and ignorance...you forgot a nation focusing on its interest in another country!?:confused:

yeah cause Croatia is the model of social perfection.


OHOHO who we have here?American who actually knows something outside US,I applaud you!
Yes we have many problems I admit, but we also have less percentage or poor people then USA.Also you are always bragging how USA are the richest country in the world,and you see Croatia is not:(
why? blacks like-my-self can too be republican


Really! I have no idea:confused:

Ended slavery:mrgreen:

Republicans ended slavery!?I thought the North did?So the Democrats are from South,very confusing...

spend in on a ABMs and planes

Bravo,your mother is proud of you!

You are helping Africa?News to me!By helping you mean supporting regimes and aiding free world oil companies that suck Nigeria oil?

[Doc Evils]

Saddam Hussein and Donald Rumsfeld as best buddies.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8d2b31faf3

[momomike3]

We have many welfare programs, which help, but are also a big part of the problem. The people get addicted to the money and never learn to work.

And yes, the southerners WERE democrats, that's why they were called the solid south.

[Axe&Hammer]

Why don't you ask Iraqis what they think?
I dont know any one that is was an Iraqi in both Baath and Free periods,but the general mood I have heard is that they like the political freedom but dislike the chaos.


You ignorant fool.
yeah I R ignant



you forgot a nation focusing on its interest in another country!?:confused:
Global players tend to focus on other nations sometimes;)



Yes we have many problems I admit, but we also have less percentage or poor people then USA.Also you are always bragging how USA are the richest country in the world,and you see Croatia is not:(
oooook:suspect:






Republicans ended slavery!?I thought the North did?So the Democrats are from South,very confusing...

Republicans under Lincoln ended slavery in a sense I think that war helped,and Democrats as well as Republicans can be from any location in the USA



Bravo,your mother is proud of you!
That she is

You are helping Africa?News to me!

Seems many things are.

By helping you mean supporting regimes and aiding free world oil companies that suck Nigeria oil?
No,food,money,medicine ect

[J_bone]

well it's pretty obvious it was for oil, he is in the oil industry and obviously wants money for himself, if this is true he is truley a horrible person worse than any other leader in the world he alone is the cause of over 100,000 deaths. i say if we should fight a country why not north korea? kim il has weapons, and he is torturing his people. the reason we dont go to war is because north korea has no oil.


on a side note did u guys know over 19 countries have soldiers in iraq? that is insane!!! there are more countries involved than ww2.

[DayWalker]

It was million times better then now. Alot of **** was happening in Iraq before you come,of course.But that doesnt justify your presence there.And the people didnt invite you or ask for your help.
It isnt peach in North Korea but I dont see you invading them to help poor people:(
I said this million times:USA actions around the world are based on USA personal interests ,as we all know that USA is not a charity organisation(you cant-wont help poor and miserable people in your country)why would you care for people on another side of the world?

You could not care lees about Iraq before 9/11.It is amazing what heavy propaganda can do!Hitler was actually inspired by USA success in this field... Cant you see that your government fooled you?If you dont,then we have nothing to talk about.
Day Walker,you being black and have this Conservative pro republican view puzzles me.What have republicans done for your people?Instead billions of dollars spend in Iraq...What would you do with all that money?
And why Iraq?There are plenty of needed countries in Africa too.Why not help them?



HaHaHa,and only you have democracy in the hole world!?Do you read my post?I said:would you go to Iraq(and by you I mean USA in generally) if hypotheticly 9/11 never happened?Do you understand my question?

:lol:
I recognize that Iraq was not Disney Land... if that is a Republican view then I guess you nailed me. Living if fear and oppression is not an acceptable way of life. You might as well say African-Americans had it better during slavery than during the Civil War. (ok maybe that was a bad example... both were crappy for us... in fact it remained crappy for a long time after the war and is just now turning around).

Now... is that why we went in there? No. Obviously we had some economic incentives to going in there as well. Otherwise... we'd actually do something about the monthly genocides in Africa... but we don't... b/c they got nothing we want... oh, and their black... and we see how the the Federal government feels about black people (cough... Katrina... cough)

Being Black and Liberal doesn't mean I hate conservatives or Republicans. True... that side of the aisle contains the majority of the bigots and crazies that historically aren't nice to people who look like me... but the vast majority of them are good people. It's just the crazies that I worry about. I am actually friends with many Republicans/conservatives and I understand where they are coming from on many of their views. While I adamantly oppose most of their social agenda... I only slightly disagree with their economical stance.

It's ok to have differences of opinion. It's when you try to force your opinion on to people where I object. And then get angry. The evangelical neo-cons are the scary ones in that party right now. Right now they are anti-homosexual... a few years ago they were anti- African-American... believe me when we say we are keeping an eye on them ;)

BTW way... Lincoln (Republican) and the North (liberals) defeated the south (conservatives/red necks) to end slavery. And that's about all we got form the elephants :lol:

[Axe&Hammer]

worse than any other leader in the world
Wow hes not that bad:-?




on a side note did u guys know over 19 countries have soldiers in Iraq? that is insane!!! there are more countries involved than ww2.The Coalition currently consists of 48 nations the Allies during WWII(at the end) consisted of about 55 nations and the Axis consisted(at the high point) of about 11

[momomike3]

Don't pull the black Katrina card. Yes, FEMA was way underprepared, but the BLACK mayor was the one who is supposed to make the call to evacuate (it is in louisiana law). Saying that the administration didn't care about New Orleans because a majority of the people were black is simply misguided.

BTW in social issues I LOVED that Al Sharpton didn't overreact to the Strom Thurman situation. I usually disagree with him in almost everything, but this time he handled it with poise and did not try to point blame on people. He said it was shocking, but only because he found out decisively that his ancestors were slaves. I applaud him.

[splitman]

Don't pull the black Katrina card. Yes, FEMA was way underprepared, but the BLACK mayor was the one who is supposed to make the call to evacuate (it is in louisiana law). Saying that the administration didn't care about New Orleans because a majority of the people were black is simply misguided.


As I recall major of New Orleans did ask for help,but received none and he was furious about that and he was using alot of "bad" words to express his opinion.

I watch this crisis over CNN just like you and I recall seeing footage of islands surrounded with water with only black people,I remember saying to my self how that looks like CNN reporting from some Africa state...

[DayWalker]

Don't pull the black Katrina card. Yes, FEMA was way underprepared, but the BLACK mayor was the one who is supposed to make the call to evacuate (it is in louisiana law). Saying that the administration didn't care about New Orleans because a majority of the people were black is simply misguided.



compare the federal response (or lack their of) to Katrina to that of the federal response to Hurricane Andrew back in the early 90s (which coincidently ended Bush Sr.'s chance of a 2nd term).

The differences are not so subtle...

[momomike3]

Bush Sr.s second term didn't happen because he focused too much on foreign policy.

[DayWalker]

Bush Sr.s second term didn't happen because he focused too much on foreign policy.

right... thus the economy and his handling of Andrew were his downfall ;)

Oh and Slick Willy was 10x cooler than him :D

[gigadigit]

Are you saying that Al Qaida has the ability but not the US Gov't?



As much as I hate Bush, I can't stand the "reasoning" that 9/11 conspirators use. I 've heard everything from the Jews were behind it to the planes were unmanned drones and none of it makes a lick of sense from a practical standpoint. This govt doesn't even have the ability to plant WMD's in Iraq to fool people into thinking they were right to invade Iraq but we're expected to believe that they have the ability to pull off 9/11?

Anyway, how did this thread get turned into a 9/11 conspiracy thread?