Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World

[hisame]

Humm TOS Wii sold much less then I expected, only 151K.
It's launched at similar timing as TOD2 on PS2 (which did 800K LTD).
Wii got much larger install base then PS2 did, not very good for Namco.

[meteorocker]

My guess is that the Wii is mostly played by non-gamers who have never played RPGs before, while former the owners of PS2's were more "hardcore" and into games like RPGs. Most PS2 gamers have probably moved on to either PS3's or 360's. (Well, not so much 360 in Japan, but North America definitely.) Even if the install base is higher, most of that is taken up by people who only buy the Wii for games like Wiifit and Wiisports, not "real" gamers.

[seebs]

I'm not following the analysis. Wii games sell for longer than games on a lot of previous systems; 151k first week in a single market isn't shabby at all, and it could easily clear a million worldwide. Look at NMH, which sold something like 13k first week in Japan, and is now over 370k worldwide.

The market is more saturated than it used to be; I like the Tales games, but I have played some before, so they aren't as compelling as they used to be.

[SolsticeZero]

One thing I've noticed is that with the Wii, (and I'm not just being a hater. I own a Wii, too) people buy the thing, take it out, play wii sports, and then it collects dust. The "casual gamer" genre is going to be held over by wii sports and wii fit, until they release wii sports 2. Sad but true

[seebs]

One thing I've noticed is that with the Wii, (and I'm not just being a hater. I own a Wii, too) people buy the thing, take it out, play wii sports, and then it collects dust. The "casual gamer" genre is going to be held over by wii sports and wii fit, until they release wii sports 2. Sad but true

I hear this said a lot, but I've not seen much in the way of data supporting it. The Wii's software attach rate is higher than the PS3's, and the current tie ratio on new sales is not half bad. It's not quite as high as the 360's, but it's been growing.

Obviously, there's always some people who get a system, get one or two games, and never use it again -- that's been true of every system.

But a lot of people buy more games, and "casual" players are less likely to obsessively finish a hundred hours of a game, and then play it online for two or three months...

[Jaffray]

Humm TOS Wii sold much less then I expected, only 151K.
It's launched at similar timing as TOD2 on PS2 (which did 800K LTD).
Wii got much larger install base then PS2 did, not very good for Namco.


Hisame downplaying Wii sales? Wow! A shocker!

You're wrong because of two reasons:

1. Namco shipped, according to Famitsu 170k of ToS2 in Japan. That's a 88% sell through. A game selling 88% of its stock the first week is very good actually. Higher than what the average game in Japan does in its first week. Some various anecdotal evidences over at GAF says that the game is sold out at the biggest stores in Tokyo. So don't blame Wii owners, but Namco themselves.

2. As you probably know by now, the Wii is selling extremely well in Japan. However, the people that buys the Wii for games like Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Mario Kart, Deca Sporta, We Ski etc. will never buy games like ToS2. And the demographic that buys the above mentioned games for the Wii, is quite big and it's growing. Don't compare Wii sales with how many who buys hardcore games. It's as pointless as comparing PS2 hardware sales with how much games like Okami, Ico, Disgaea sells just to name a few.

[hisame]

Hisame downplaying Wii sales? Wow! A shocker!

You're wrong because of two reasons:

1. Namco shipped, according to Famitsu 170k of ToS2 in Japan. That's a 88% sell through. A game selling 88% of its stock the first week is very good actually. Higher than what the average game in Japan does in its first week. Some various anecdotal evidences over at GAF says that the game is sold out at the biggest stores in Tokyo. So don't blame Wii owners, but Namco themselves.

2. As you probably know by now, the Wii is selling extremely well in Japan. However, the people that buys the Wii for games like Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Mario Kart, Deca Sporta, We Ski etc. will never buy games like ToS2. And the demographic that buys the above mentioned games for the Wii, is quite big and it's growing. Don't compare Wii sales with how many who buys hardcore games. It's as pointless as comparing PS2 hardware sales with how much games like Okami, Ico, Disgaea sells just to name a few.

1. So Namco was expecting bad sale in the first place? Humm reasonable.

2. I thought that was my point in the first place.

[Tyrien]

Is there any date on a release in North America?

I have a hefty Walmart card coming my way soon and thinking about getting a Wii.

[seebs]

I think a lot of developers are being cautious, but that's okay; if sales continue for longer (and they usually do), they will catch up on sales. It'd be nice financially if they got all their sales up front, but I think in the long run a market where games stay relevant for more than a month is healthier.

[hisame]

I'm not following the analysis. Wii games sell for longer than games on a lot of previous systems; 151k first week in a single market isn't shabby at all, and it could easily clear a million worldwide. Look at NMH, which sold something like 13k first week in Japan, and is now over 370k worldwide.

The market is more saturated than it used to be; I like the Tales games, but I have played some before, so they aren't as compelling as they used to be.

Humm, I am not so sure about leg on 3rd party Wii games,
since I though NMH was mainly due to it's more popular in other regions.
Anyway I do agree about the saturation part, I was in doubt wether I should get a Wii for this game but gave up.
A few of my long time tales friend did, but most did not.
But TOV seem to get more support, I guess many think TOS2 is only a side story but TOS wa popular.
Namco is spreading their bet on all console, don't know who will hit the gold.
Actually I think they maybe working on a multiplat engine for tales, who knows.

[BakaMaster]

Is there any date on a release in North America?

I have a hefty Walmart card coming my way soon and thinking about getting a Wii.

It seem to hit November 1 08. I havent even play TOS1 yet. This is getting sad sence i rarey play my GC. It was only good for Skies of Arcadia witch was my 2nd time playing sence DC.:mad:

Dam Tales Series is always a mix match console :evil: Im close to giving up on all tales Series thats for sure. Not going to make the same mistake as i did with GC.

[Avrum]

1. So Namco was expecting bad sale in the first place? Humm reasonable.

2. I thought that was my point in the first place.

Not necessarily, it could simply be gauging the market. For example, the ToS for the GCN didn't have a huge retail presence either until Namco ramped up shipments the moment they saw that people wanted the game. Globally, ToS ended up being the most successful Tales game outside of Japan and the GCN was the console that launched that gem. Pretty much similar to what S-E did with TWEWY here in the states which is hard as all get out to find for the most part.

ToS2 could very well rival if not surpass the original's sales if sell through is that high on the initial shipment and could certainly be another success story when talking global sales.

No need to speak so soon especially considering the information Jaffray posted up there. Of course the sales won't look that high when you don't even have the full story. :P

[BakaMaster]

The problem what i have about Nintendo console is that i never put them in good use. I always have more games for Sega then Nintendo in each gen console. Even till then I still Nintendo Wii wont put alot of effect on me seeing how my past Nintendo was. My avg each Nintendo console was about 6 games. While Sega was avg 16 games & Dreamcast was 89 games. PSone was 21 games as my PS2 was 78 games+. still on-going.

GB & GBA i bought a max 7 games on each..........:???:

[Avrum]

The problem what i have about Nintendo console is that i never put them in good use. I always have more games for Sega then Nintendo in each gen console. Even till then I still Nintendo Wii wont put alot of effect on me seeing how my past Nintendo was. My avg each Nintendo console was about 6 games. While Sega was avg 16 games & Dreamcast was 89 games. PSone was 21 games as my PS2 was 78 games+. still on-going.

GB & GBA i bought a max 7 games on each..........:???:

What does that have to do with ToS: Dawn of the New World though? That's kind of your issue not any fault of the game. :P

[hisame]

Not necessarily, it could simply be gauging the market. For example, the ToS for the GCN didn't have a huge retail presence either until Namco ramped up shipments the moment they saw that people wanted the game. Globally, ToS ended up being the most successful Tales game outside of Japan and the GCN was the console that launched that gem. Pretty much similar to what S-E did with TWEWY here in the states which is hard as all get out to find for the most part.

ToS2 could very well rival if not surpass the original's sales if sell through is that high on the initial shipment and could certainly be another success story when talking global sales.

No need to speak so soon especially considering the information Jaffray posted up there. Of course the sales won't look that high when you don't even have the full story. :P

Not directly to ToS2 but usually the number shipped in launch day is control by retaillers.
It depends on pre-orders and reflection the retailer gets from their customers, and developer ship as required.
Or the developer will ship more then required i.e. channel stuffing.
However I never knew developer will ship less then retailer ordered,
unless it's in millions when developer can't print that volume.

[seebs]

Retailers originally ordered 70,000 copies of Brain Age, because they did not think the DS would sell many games, let alone many games that weren't much like most other video games.

Retailers often guess wrong on what will sell. The high sell-through suggests that there's more market there.

[BakaMaster]

What does that have to do with ToS: Dawn of the New World though? That's kind of your issue not any fault of the game. :P

None realy, it has nothing to do with tos. Its had to do with tha console. Nintendo is one console i have less games with. I hate to buy a console just for 1-3 games & let it sit there in tha near end.

Just as to say i would love to get my hands on tos down of the new world but its on a console i have less affect on.:?

[Avrum]

Not directly to ToS2 but usually the number shipped in launch day is control by retaillers.
It depends on pre-orders and reflection the retailer gets from their customers, and developer ship as required.
Or the developer will ship more then required i.e. channel stuffing.
However I never knew developer will ship less then retailer ordered,
unless it's in millions when developer can't print that volume.

Possibly, but then what exactly was the point of that? Even if that were the case with ToS2 (and yes, I know you mentioned it wasn't directly related to it) that high of a sell through is likely to yield further shipments and increased sales over time. Seebs pretty much hit the nail on the head with the Brain Age example. Retailers can gauge what the may need depending on a number of factors but that isn't always accurate of the potential selling power of the product in question. Wnat another example? How about The World Ends With You, here in the states.

[seebs]

TWEWY had tiny shipments. I ended up driving twenty-five miles each way to get a copy. I suspect there's a lot of demand left.

[Avrum]

TWEWY had tiny shipments. I ended up driving twenty-five miles each way to get a copy. I suspect there's a lot of demand left.

I have a few friends still looking for the game. I got it when it first came out, before word of mouth caught the buzz and the game became scarce. I wonder when S-E plans to send up the next print run because the most recent secondary shipment seems to have not been enough either.

[seebs]

Namco apparently thinks the sales are good enough; they're going to do the next flagship Tales game on Wii.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/886/886944p1.html

[hisame]

Have a good knock of it with my friend's Wii, he don't use it a lot now.
Hummm, it's the wrost main stream Tales I played, and I played evey single one of them.
Don't know why but it takes a while to load when a battle start.
Battle seems to be longer then it used to be and less active.
All the old TOS chracter are guests not real member of your team.
Namco lied about the volume, it's about 25~30 hours long, much shorter then usual tales at 50~80 hours.
It's not too bad if you own a Wii, but it's not worth it to buy a Wii.

Anyway Tales to walking towards the character game side, I know it started as a simi character game.
I hope TOV will be better then this.

[seebs]

Of course it's shorter; it's a spin-off.

Here's how it works. Namco developed a spin-off Tales game for the Wii this year, and it gets the main series title next year. I assume this one was at least partially the project to work on to get familiar with the system.

[hisame]

Hummm, does spin off always has to be low volume?
Kabukiden was not shorter then any Tenkai sequel.
And to get use to Wii? I have my personal doubt on that.
I think it's more about testing market value then anything else.
Personally I think Tales is going the same way as DQ and FF.
Making tones of crap spin offs.
Maybe I should stop playing tales too.
BTW I stop playing FF at FF4 and DQ at DQ4.

[seebs]

You missed a lot of excellent FF games, then. I don't know about all of DQ, but the later ones have been pretty decent.

I think a lot of developers have done shorter or easier titles for their first Wii outing to test the market, but also to get a feel for the system. It is much easier to spec or plan a large project if you have more experience with the target.

[BakaMaster]

The only DQ i started playing was DQ8 :o

Tho if hisame word is rite about the loading battling time, then that mite hurt. I remeber Skies of Arcadia took like 7-8 sec loading time on Dreamcast then when it came to Gamecube it took 4-5 sec :heart:. Any battling time takes longer then 8 sec plus i have to quit hands down.

One game i was force to quit was OKAGE: Shadow King. The loading time was so horrible it just got me so bord & trying to avoid as many battle. The gameplay was fun i was getting into it but once you go out freely to the land.... o man:(

[seebs]

Okage was so hated by reviewers, but my roommates loved it. There were shrieks of laughter; apparently it's really fun to play with someone else there to entertain you while it's being slow.

[hisame]

You missed a lot of excellent FF games, then. I don't know about all of DQ, but the later ones have been pretty decent.

I think a lot of developers have done shorter or easier titles for their first Wii outing to test the market, but also to get a feel for the system. It is much easier to spec or plan a large project if you have more experience with the target.

Maybe so I bought FF7, FF9, and FFX 2nd hand to play on my PS2.
Sold them last year without even had them in my PS2 more then once.
And I simply don't like the idea of DQ from 4 onwards.
And most told me 4 was one of the best, actually it's the one board me so much I stop playing DQ.

[seebs]

I guess your mileage may vary. I played some of DQ8, but then Wii happened and I never got back to it.

[hisame]

I guess your mileage may vary. I played some of DQ8, but then Wii happened and I never got back to it.

Humm, I was thinking to get a DS when DQ9 come out.
But I can barly find any game I want on DS.
Other then VOB I still can't find a game that I will spend my time and dig into.

[seebs]

Huh.

I have about thirty DS games I think are worth the money, and ten or fifteen that I expect to play for 20-40 hours or more. TWEWY is one of the best games I've played in the last five years. (I think it's called something like "It's a Wonderful World" in Japan.)

[hisame]

Huh.

I have about thirty DS games I think are worth the money, and ten or fifteen that I expect to play for 20-40 hours or more. TWEWY is one of the best games I've played in the last five years. (I think it's called something like "It's a Wonderful World" in Japan.)

What's the gener for the majority of your collections?
In the last 5 year I found games on the gener that I love seems to die off.
Maybe I am too old for gaming, can't seem to like any of the new popular geners.

[seebs]

I like just about everything except shooters, racers, and most sports games. With some exceptions.

My favorites are RPGs and turn-based strategy, but there's some weird stuff; Endless Ocean is great for me, even though it's nothing like what I otherwise play. Oh, and puzzles. I love just about all puzzles.

[Jaffray]

If you can't find any games on the DS that interests you, you must seriously hate gaming.

Even I, who semi hates handheld gaming, owns 14 games for the system, and there are still 10+ games that I'm interested in.

[girlgamer1984]

So, when is this coming out for EU, and USA?

[Azu]

Possibly in November/December in Europe, probably earlier in the US.

[dfx13]

This TOS is selling faster than the GC version.

TOV on the XBox doesn't seem to be getting a big reaction on Amazon. I think the Wii is a much better fit for the franchise until the PS3 gets a larger install base in JPN>

[BakaMaster]

If you can't find any games on the DS that interests you, you must seriously hate gaming.

Even I, who semi hates handheld gaming, owns 14 games for the system, and there are still 10+ games that I'm interested in.

The problem i hate about handheld was making my dam hands tired..... My GBA i had only 9 games with alot of etc.

I realy dont know if i want a DS or PSP its just............ well too much timing:mad:
Onething for sure is i mite wait till DS & PSP gose down then track down the games.:-D

This TOS is selling faster than the GC version.

TOV on the XBox doesn't seem to be getting a big reaction on Amazon. I think the Wii is a much better fit for the franchise until the PS3 gets a larger install base in JPN>

So is TOV not doing well ??...... still 3 weeks to go & see how rating.