HD DVD Demise Didn't Boost BR

[DayWalker]

NEW YORK - Sales of Blu-ray disc players haven't been helped by maker Toshiba's capitulation over producing the rival HD DVD format, research firm NPD Group said Wednesday.

Toshiba announced on Feb. 19 that it would stop making HD DVD players, already doomed by Warner Bros. Entertainment's announcement Jan. 4 that it was dropping HD DVD to focus on Blu-ray.

Sales of Blu-ray players, excluding PlayStation 3 game consoles, dropped 40 percent from January to February in the U.S., according to NPD. Sales grew only 2 percent from February to March. The firm didn't release numbers of players sold.
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"When we surveyed consumers late last year, an overwhelming number of them said they weren't investing in a new next-generation player because their old DVD player worked well and next-generation players were too expensive," said Ross Rubin, director of industry analysis at NPD. "It's clear from retail sales that those consumer sentiments are still holding true."

While DVD players cost less than $100, Blu-ray players generally cost $400 or more.

Another factor that may be holding back sales of Blu-ray players is that anticipated models with Internet connectivity haven't hit the market yet. Current models can't be upgraded.

But sales of PS3s seem to be recovering, perhaps with help from their built-in Blu-ray players. Sony Corp. sold 257,120 units in the U.S. in March, nearly doubling last year's figure.

Another firm, ABI Research, estimates that PS3s will account for more than 85 percent of Blu-ray players in use this year and that the number of stand-alone players and Blu-ray-equipped PCs won't surpass them until 2013.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24394282/

I didn't bother to read the whole thing... excludes PS3 sales though...

[grcswoosh]

I think it has a lot to do with just about every single tech site/show, saying to wait until profile 2.0 is the standard. Why doesn't every one just buy a PS3 and have the best of both worlds.
Plus Band of Brothers will be on BluRay sometime in the next year. This alone will convert the majority of the world!

[Metfanant]

the question is not really month to month....but what were sales like at this time LAST YEAR??....

[Saigon]

the question is not really month to month....but what were sales like at this time LAST YEAR??....

that is true...but still the source is a big issue with me...

[Saigon]

here is an article in relation...I know earlier I said i did not like the source...but these people need to some how factor in the PS3...right now it is the best blu-ray player out there...

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/blu-ray-the-future-has-been-delayed/


By Eric Taub (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/author/etaub/)
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/02/14/technology/sonybluray.531.jpg

Hot on the heels of last week’s report from ABI Research noting that many consumers may not see the picture quality difference between Blu-ray and standard DVDs comes the latest Blu-ray sales figures from NPD Group. And they’re not pretty.

According to NPD, sales of Blu-ray standalone players plummeted 40 percent from January to February, then rose a scant 2 percent from February to March. The general consensus was that once Toshiba dropped its support for the HD DVD format early this year, sales would increase.

In fact, sales of Blu-ray standalone players remain so low that NPD has not yet released actual numbers, for fear that it would be easy to identify individual retailers. The research group will start to give actual figures later this year, said Ross Rubin, director of industry analysis at NPD.

The end of the format wars clearly did little to boost Blu-ray’s prospects. Like others, Mr. Rubin said the much cheaper upconverting standard DVD players are winning consumers’ hearts and wallets.


The price of upconverting players is hovering around $70. And this week, Amazon is giving them away for free when consumers purchase certain Samsung TVs. The result: a 5 percent uptick in upconverting DVD player sales in the first quarter of 2008, compared to same quarter a year ago, and a 39 percent decline in players that don’t have that feature.

With Blu-ray players still costing more than $300 — and a number of players on the market still lacking some Blu-ray features like Internet connectivity — NPD now figures that Blu-ray’s future won’t be clear until this Christmas, when prices should drop to the $200 range.

ABI Research is even less optimistic. In a report released yesterday, the research firm figures it could take until October 2009 until Blu-ray gains a foothold in the market.

[Dasimpse]

THIS is exactly what i was getting at. I was trying to tell people that the company i work for was selling very few blu rays, and got quickly informed that they all sell online!

well this is obviousley not the case. no competition between HD DVD and blu ray has stopped ALL free publicity for the format, and now its suffering.

I honestly think the war made people CARE, but now people have nothing to CARE about in theory. Blu ray isnt doing too well. I dont think its gonna really excell. it cant seem to geta footing!

[Saigon]

THIS is exactly what i was getting at. I was trying to tell people that the company i work for was selling very few blu rays, and got quickly informed that they all sell online!

well this is obviousley not the case. no competition between HD DVD and blu ray has stopped ALL free publicity for the format, and now its suffering.

I honestly think the war made people CARE, but now people have nothing to CARE about in theory. Blu ray isnt doing too well. I dont think its gonna really excell. it cant seem to geta footing!

i understood your last argument...but you seem to forget they left out the PS3 sales...which is understandable because it is not just a blu-ray player...the sales for the system are increasing every moment...

notice that they did not include the disc sales...

[tuaamin13]

Yeah that article is definitely shifty. How many discs were sold? I mean, it's early in the year. People are going to wait until either a) the holidays b) they get their tax rebate or c) not need to buy a player because they already got one.

Also, even if they did count BD Disc sales from the NPD, the numbers would still be low. NPD forgets about online retailers, right? I know Amazon has been occasionally running BOGO and up to 50% off Blurays (I get the emails for some reason). Why go to a B&M retailer and pay full price for a disc rather than buy it online cheaper?

[kuku]

It's easy for AP to write articles with simple correlations. That's usually how it goes.

There's no magic formula except a price cut, or a hot holiday season. Neither is here right now.

Until summer madness, it's just standard movement. There was never really a war, in that the early adopters almost always had more disposable income, and with disposable income came the fact that they were not really caring of the war.

Player prices will drop, media will expand, HDTVs will push more, natural course will come in due time. I mean it's a big "duh?"

On thing is true though, the press really are having a trouble spicing up headlines without HD DVD for sure. No more "omg! did you see that move??"

[Atari]

So is this just a Microsoft fluff piece? I did have a good laugh at the lack of real thinking. Most news articles are written with little regard to facts, so I suppose I'm expecting to much in this instance. /Shrug/

[To.Ken]

This article is pretty bogus because is excludes the PS3 which by the article's own admission is 85% of the Blu-Ray player market. The article even admits that the PS3 sold over 250K units in March which is probably 1/3 of the HDDVD installed base.

So from January to March, an amount of Blu-Ray players equivilent to almost the entire lifetime installed base of HDDVD was sold.

[mcav]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24394282/

I didn't bother to read the whole thing... excludes PS3 sales though...

Then the whole article is STUPID!

PS3 accounts for a HUGE amount of Blu Ray players.

[DayWalker]

Then the whole article is STUPID!

PS3 accounts for a HUGE amount of Blu Ray players.

only if people are making use of the BR move playback...

[rader023]

only if people are making use of the BR move playback...

Well which one is it......I have read articles that state the PS3 sales don't equal an install base like xbox 360s because many people buy it for blu-ray. Then this comes out and people say that people buy PS3 for games. Which one is it? No studies have come out to show that usage. My guess is somewhere in the middle. Therefore some people use it only for BR, some only for games, and people like me use it for both, ALOT.

[Terrabit]

I could swear I read somewhere that BluRay movie sales had rose something like 300% or 600%?

[Saigon]

I could swear I read somewhere that BluRay movie sales had rose something like 300% or 600%?

yeah it has...this is in regards to blu-ray players...and they do not include the PS3...which is stupid...

I have an uncle that recently bought the PS3 because it is a Media HUB...he also bought GTA4...but his main concern was the the Blu-ray player...

I think NPD is reporting this to show that DD id the way of the future...which again we are long from doing...

[Lefein]

I'd like to offer a speculative alternative.. Who is to say that the High def formats BOTH would have started flopping by now if one or the other didnt get out of the way? It's easy to compare sales numbers with the holiday season and come to the conclusion that "oh noez, teh HD formats are teh fayul".. But, it may not be as simple as that. In fact, it probably isn't.

Stand alone players are expensive and widespread HDTV adoption has not even begun. HDTV makers are still trying to get a premium on the technology while they still can. Once the US market switches in '09, thats when the real games will begin (and, of course the Holiday '08 lead-up).. All I'm saying is, both BluRay and HD-DVD adoption could have been down this month. With all the crap storm on the news about an economic slowdown, why would someone run out and buy a $400 stand alone player like tomorrow will never come?

What gives?

[mcav]

only if people are making use of the BR move playback...


Which - quite clearly - they are.

More importantly - the ones who currently are not - they will.

People can speculate all they like - but in a couple of short years, there will be no question.

[dogg2k78]

All these numbers are just inconclusive without including the Ps3. Does anyone know anything about the software and are Bluray movie sales up?

[Grym]

I like how the PS3 isn't a Blu-ray player anymore now.

It's like twilight zone or something.

[Azu]

Didn't the sales of Bluray movies grow, like, 300% after HD DVD died? Isn't that what's more important than the number of bluray players on the market? People have started buying Bluray movies more now than before.

[madhi19]

The BR players sales would start rising has soon has their more HDTV in the market. I don't doubt that most HDTV owners are looking at getting one right now but they are not moving due to the price of a standalone. Peoples need to be reminded more often that the PS3 is a Blu Ray player that something Sony need to advertises in movie theater.

The other factor is the size of the BR library the lack of a big library of movies to buy and rent is slowing adoption of the new format and that need to be fixed asap. Peoples don't really want to buy an expensive Blu Ray player when they would really start using it in a year or so. They figure that when their more movies the price of the BR player would be down and they can make due with a cheap upconverting DVD player for a while. When Blu Ray get a few major franchise like Star Wars or Lord Of The Rings the ball would start rolling pretty fast.

[Metfanant]

The BR players sales would start rising has soon has their more HDTV in the market. I don't doubt that most HDTV owners are looking at getting one right now but they are not moving due to the price of a standalone. Peoples need to be reminded more often that the PS3 is a Blu Ray player that something Sony need to advertises in movie theater.

The other factor is the size of the BR library the lack of a big library of movies to buy and rent is slowing adoption of the new format and that need to be fixed asap. Peoples don't really want to buy an expensive Blu Ray player when they would really start using it in a year or so. They figure that when their more movies the price of the BR player would be down and they can make due with a cheap upconverting DVD player for a while. When Blu Ray get a few major franchise like Star Wars or Lord Of The Rings the ball would start rolling pretty fast.

remember it took about 7 years for DVD to equal the yearly sales of VHS...and you didn't need to get a new TV to reap the benefits of DVD over VHS.....it will take time...

[DayWalker]

Which - quite clearly - they are.

More importantly - the ones who currently are not - they will.

People can speculate all they like - but in a couple of short years, there will be no question.

really? last I checked... all BR sale gains are neglible compared to the overwhelming domination of DVD.
Reminds me of Apple vs PC desktops... Apple's market share doubles in 4 years... MS still owns 90+% of the market.

Anyways... to me... this article just shows that the jump to HD still is not happening... at least not significantly...
And that's probably not too good for Sony...

[Beodude123]

Then the whole article is STUPID!

PS3 accounts for a HUGE amount of Blu Ray players.

Of course they do, but you really can't count each as a player; not all of them are used as such, so it wouldn't really be fair to categorize them like that. We all know that PS3 buyers are carrying the format, and we know that more discs are sold now than ever...

[Metfanant]

really? last I checked... all BR sale gains are neglible compared to the overwhelming domination of DVD.
Reminds me of Apple vs PC desktops... Apple's market share doubles in 4 years... MS still owns 90+% of the market.

Anyways... to me... this article just shows that the jump to HD still is not happening... at least not significantly...
And that's probably not too good for Sony...

see above post....

25252525252525

[Lefein]

Anyways... to me... this article just shows that the jump to HD still is not happening...
yet.
at least not significantly...
Digital TVs have not become the standard. 2009 is where it's at.
And that's probably not too good for Sony...
HAH! It's friggin awesome for Sony. Look how much they've been able to cut in production costs up to this point! They beheaded the competitive format at a higher price premium.. BluRay movies will be $15 one day and the players will reach the $200 mark in time for the digital switch over..

How is any of that bad for Sony? At this point, the question is how much do they want to subsidize out of their profits to increase market penetration. Hardly a bad position to be in in the business world.

[DayWalker]

see above post....

25252525252525

7 years...
I don't think thats the time scale Sony had in mind... but who knows...

If it takes that long there is a good chance digital distribution will take the crown...

yet.

Digital TVs have not become the standard. 2009 is where it's at.

HAH! It's friggin awesome for Sony. Look how much they've been able to cut in production costs up to this point! They beheaded the competitive format at a higher price premium.. BluRay movies will be $15 one day and the players will reach the $200 mark in time for the digital switch over..

How is any of that bad for Sony? At this point, the question is how much do they want to subsidize out of their profits to increase market penetration. Hardly a bad position to be in in the business world.

I was speaking "short term"

And I am skeptical that "going digital" goes hand in hand will jumping into the HD era...

[Metfanant]

7 years...
I don't think thats the time scale Sony had in mind... but who knows...

If it takes that long there is a good chance digital distribution will take the crown...

did you expect for everyone to go dump their DVD collections in the garbage for BD's?? If you did, you're crazy....

im a High Def Media supporter till the end....i HATE when people say Upscaled DVD's are "good enough" but the fact remains....Blu ray offers ZERO advantage over DVD if you don't have an HDTV, thats a simple fact....

so why should people without HDTV's buy a BD player??? they shouldn't...

DVD offered HUGE advantages over VHS and you DIDN"T need a new TV to experience them....and it STILL took nearly 7 years for DVD to trump VHS just in sales for a YEAR, not even talking about lifetime sales here....things like this take time....

[DayWalker]

did you expect for everyone to go dump their DVD collections in the garbage for BD's?? If you did, you're crazy....

im a High Def Media supporter till the end....i HATE when people say Upscaled DVD's are "good enough" but the fact remains....Blu ray offers ZERO advantage over DVD if you don't have an HDTV, thats a simple fact....

so why should people without HDTV's buy a BD player??? they shouldn't...

DVD offered HUGE advantages over VHS and you DIDN"T need a new TV to experience them....and it STILL took nearly 7 years for DVD to trump VHS just in sales for a YEAR, not even talking about lifetime sales here....things like this take time....

:lol:

don't hate me man... I'm just the messenger!!!

All I'm sayin is that short term wise- BR is still on the fringe.

Long term wise- nobody knows what's going to happen...
Digital distribution might kick in before BR is even within ear shot of DVD...

Your VHS/DVD example is perfect... it took 7 years...
Now throw in an expensive TV... does it now become 10 years? 12 years?
Who's to say what will happen between now and then...

[madhi19]

I agree that the BR sales is interdependent on the HDTV penetration. We should not forget that the major technological change that about to happen is not DVD to BR it SD to HDTV. The good news for that format change is the switch to HD for over the air broadcasting in early 2009. By December we should see a major rise in HDTV sales.

Three major factor is going to make this happen the price should become more affordable has the industry is mass producing cheaper HDTV. The economy should be restarted at that point which mean that peoples would want to spend more. And the Christmas season is always a big sellers for electronic items.

[Stoffinator]

Thats because the damn things are to expensive. They need to come down to DVD prices.

[Metfanant]

Thats because the damn things are to expensive. They need to come down to DVD prices.

do you think DVD's and DVD player prices came down to VCR and VHS prices roughly 2 years into its lifespan?....



no...

[Beodude123]

You know, in stores they are stupid expensive, but Blu-ray movies are actually pretty reasonable on Amazon. If you get them from there, you also get free shipping. So it's really not too bad online. That's where I've gotten 90% of my collection.

[bobtheduck]

THIS is exactly what i was getting at. I was trying to tell people that the company i work for was selling very few blu rays, and got quickly informed that they all sell online!

well this is obviousley not the case. no competition between HD DVD and blu ray has stopped ALL free publicity for the format, and now its suffering.

I honestly think the war made people CARE, but now people have nothing to CARE about in theory. Blu ray isnt doing too well. I dont think its gonna really excell. it cant seem to geta footing!

You are so full of crap... They're talking about the numbers just before it went under and just after. What about the numbers just before WB went Blu and Just after? MONSTROUS difference... In both disc sales and Standalone player sales... Like no one would believe, monstrous difference. Statistics can always be manipulated if your audience doesn't pay attention to the numbers you're using.

Bluray got a boost as soon as the writing was on the wall. When it was official, everyone already knew by that point.

[Saigon]

:lol:

don't hate me man... I'm just the messenger!!!

All I'm sayin is that short term wise- BR is still on the fringe.

Long term wise- nobody knows what's going to happen...
Digital distribution might kick in before BR is even within ear shot of DVD...

Your VHS/DVD example is perfect... it took 7 years...
Now throw in an expensive TV... does it now become 10 years? 12 years?
Who's to say what will happen between now and then...

not trying to knock your statement, you are right to an extent...

I posted this article last week the same day you started this thread...

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=137141

and it shows that the prices are coming down...I expect this to happen aggressivley through out the year...and why you might ask...most manufacturers are trying to switch over to OLED TV's...So the prices for LCD's and Plasma's are dramaticly going to drop within the next year or two...

[DayWalker]

not trying to knock your statement, you are right to an extent...

I posted this article last week the same day you started this thread...

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=137141

and it shows that the prices are coming down...I expect this to happen aggressivley through out the year...and why you might ask...most manufacturers are trying to switch over to OLED TV's...So the prices for LCD's and Plasma's are dramaticly going to drop within the next year or two...

good... I want to upgrade to the HD era as soon as I can afford it without wincing...

[Stoffinator]

do you think DVD's and DVD player prices came down to VCR and VHS prices roughly 2 years into its lifespan?....



no...

So what? That doesn't mean Bluray shouldn't.

[radgamer420]

I'm not surprised. DVD movies are way cheaper and alot of people haven't jumped to HD yet. Operative word being yet. Bluray will eventually be the new standard and it will start to take off but propably not for another year or so. But for right now DVD is stil going to be the better seller. For now. Personally after watching bluray movies I could never go back to DVD.

[TGO]

Sorry I don't do "excluding [insert here]" BS, anybody who has a slightest interest in Hi'def movies in the past year are full aware that the PS3 is the best Blu-ray player on the market & will/have probably brought one.
show me complete sales, not one that removes 80+% of sales.

[Beodude123]

Sorry I don't do "excluding [insert here]" BS, anybody who has a slightest interest in Hi'def movies in the past year are full aware that the PS3 is the best Blu-ray player on the market & will/have probably brought one.
show me complete sales, not one that removes 80+% of sales.


I can see why they would only use dedicated players, but I can understand your frustration. I think somewhere around 70% of PS3 owners buy at least one Blu-ray... So they should use that as a base statistic for attach rates and sales.

[Metfanant]

Sorry I don't do "excluding [insert here]" BS, anybody who has a slightest interest in Hi'def movies in the past year are full aware that the PS3 is the best Blu-ray player on the market & will/have probably brought one.
show me complete sales, not one that removes 80+% of sales.

but the PS3 is not the best Blu-ray player on the market....it is certainly the best value out there...but not the best....it doesn;t have the best upcaler, it can't bitstream DTSHD:MA or Dolby True HD....and its still a first generation player as far as the laser is concerned...

So what? That doesn't mean Bluray shouldn't.that is just crazy logic....its simply how technology works lol....new stuff comes out and its expensive...and it takes awhile for prices to come down....its just how it works man....were still talking about companies covering initial development costs here....it costs LOTS of money to introduce a new tech to the market....prices stay high until you have made that money back....once the initial investment pays off it then becomes cheaper to produce and manufacture....thats when we will get price drops on players....its simple economics...

[TGO]

I can see why they would only use dedicated players, but I can understand your frustration. I think somewhere around 70% of PS3 owners buy at least one Blu-ray... So they should use that as a base statistic for attach rates and sales.

I ain't frustrated:lol:
what I'm saying is..........say like 40% of home movie sales were Blu-ray, but PS3 owners were responsible for 25%, would it be stupid to turn around and say that Blu-ray holds 15% because PS3 isn't a dedicated player?
but still whatever, it doesn't change anything, sales are sales.....just kinda stupid how picky they are about, ya get me.

[Stoffinator]

that is just crazy logic....its simply how technology works lol....new stuff comes out and its expensive...and it takes awhile for prices to come down....its just how it works man....were still talking about companies covering initial development costs here....it costs LOTS of money to introduce a new tech to the market....prices stay high until you have made that money back....once the initial investment pays off it then becomes cheaper to produce and manufacture....thats when we will get price drops on players....its simple economics...

Its not crazy logic at all. Look at the PS3, it came down faster then any console before it. Not everything always has to follow a pattern, it follows the demand and sales. And this is probably why Wal*Mart (at least in Canada) is not selling Blurays anymore. They want the price lowered. So, with what you say is true for the most part, it doesn't always work that way.

[Metfanant]

Its not crazy logic at all. Look at the PS3, it came down faster then any console before it. Not everything always has to follow a pattern, it follows the demand and sales. And this is probably why Wal*Mart (at least in Canada) is not selling Blurays anymore. They want the price lowered. So, with what you say is true for the most part, it doesn't always work that way.
the PS3's price came down because it HAD to to compete with its competitors...

Blu-ray prices have already come WAY DOWN (remember how expensive the first players were?)....and Blu-ray was beating its competitor (HD-DVD) so there is no need to SLASH prices like was needed with the PS3....the PS3 came down so fast because it was getting killed in sales....not to mention the PS3 didn't drop in price much quicker than the PS2 did....

game consoles cannot be compared to your average consumer electronics....companies historically take HUGE hits on consoles to make them up in software sales....remember, MS never even turned a penny's worth of profit on the original xbox....

[Stoffinator]

the PS3's price came down because it HAD to to compete with its competitors...

Blu-ray prices have already come WAY DOWN (remember how expensive the first players were?)....and Blu-ray was beating its competitor (HD-DVD) so there is no need to SLASH prices like was needed with the PS3....the PS3 came down so fast because it was getting killed in sales....not to mention the PS3 didn't drop in price much quicker than the PS2 did....

game consoles cannot be compared to your average consumer electronics....companies historically take HUGE hits on consoles to make them up in software sales....remember, MS never even turned a penny's worth of profit on the original xbox....

Either way, the prices of the software need to come down. Bottom line.

[Metfanant]

Either way, the prices of the software need to come down. Bottom line.

do you mean PS3 games?....thats not happening....period....if you're talking BD, then it will...with time....just like DVD's....if you think for a minute there were $10 DVD's floating around 2 years after the lanuch of DVD you're crazy.....it just doesn't happen.... are all the people on these forums really THAT young that they don't remember that you couldn't always go to Walmart and pick up a $40 DVD player and grab good DVD's out of the 2 for $11 bin??....it took YEARS for DVD prices to get this low.... and if you're really upset about BD prices you're buying from the wrong sources....i have almost 50 BD movies now and have paid less than $20 for most of them....off the top of my head the only ones i've paid more than $20 for are....both parts of the Sopranos Season 6 (4BD's each).....the die hard collection (4 movies)...one of the pirates movies....and Saw III which was my first BD....bought it at Best Buy before i knew how much cheaper Amazon is....don't buy your films from brick and mortar stores they kill you with their prices....Amazon is ALWAYS cheaper....i get most of my movies in the $15 range....heck i actually paid less than $10 each for Terminator, Terminator 2, and Crash....

[TurdFergueson2]

If blu rays were 20 bucks I would have more than the bundled Talladega and Spiderman 3.

[Metfanant]

If blu rays were 20 bucks I would have more than the bundled Talladega and Spiderman 3.

order away.....free shipping if you spend more than $25.... http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/332285011/ref=pd_ts_c_th_more?&pf_rd_p=315869901&pf_rd_s=right-5&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=193640011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1GW4JP02G45ADAS1H89T for Christ's sake the Rambo 1-3 boxed set is less than $35!!...thats nearly $10 per movie....you guys are just buying from the wrong sources....there are a couple near $10 movies there....MANY in the $15-$20 range....and TONS in the $20-$25 range....

[Stoffinator]

do you mean PS3 games?....thats not happening....period....if you're talking BD, then it will...with time....just like DVD's....if you think for a minute there were $10 DVD's floating around 2 years after the lanuch of DVD you're crazy.....it just doesn't happen.... are all the people on these forums really THAT young that they don't remember that you couldn't always go to Walmart and pick up a $40 DVD player and grab good DVD's out of the 2 for $11 bin??....it took YEARS for DVD prices to get this low.... and if you're really upset about BD prices you're buying from the wrong sources....i have almost 50 BD movies now and have paid less than $20 for most of them....off the top of my head the only ones i've paid more than $20 for are....both parts of the Sopranos Season 6 (4BD's each).....the die hard collection (4 movies)...one of the pirates movies....and Saw III which was my first BD....bought it at Best Buy before i knew how much cheaper Amazon is....don't buy your films from brick and mortar stores they kill you with their prices....Amazon is ALWAYS cheaper....i get most of my movies in the $15 range....heck i actually paid less than $10 each for Terminator, Terminator 2, and Crash....

$10 DVD after 2 years? No, but you could find some around the $15 mark. Thats when I went from VHS to DVD. People will be more willing to pay higher prices for the hardware (players) if they see the software is cheaper. They need to lower the prices of the BD. It doesn't cost much more to make then DVDs. Mostly since most of the BD movies are damn old films anyway.

order away.....free shipping if you spend more than $25.... http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/332285011/ref=pd_ts_c_th_more?&pf_rd_p=315869901&pf_rd_s=right-5&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=193640011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1GW4JP02G45ADAS1H89T for Christ's sake the Rambo 1-3 boxed set is less than $35!!...thats nearly $10 per movie....you guys are just buying from the wrong sources....there are a couple near $10 movies there....MANY in the $15-$20 range....and TONS in the $20-$25 range....

Screw that. If they can't do it in retail, then sales aren't going to ad up. Not everyone can or will shop online.

[Metfanant]

$10 DVD after 2 years? No, but you could find some around the $15 mark. Thats when I went from VHS to DVD. People will be more willing to pay higher prices for the hardware (players) if they see the software is cheaper. They need to lower the prices of the BD. It doesn't cost much more to make then DVDs. Mostly since most of the BD movies are damn old films anyway.

i just gave you a link above to lots of examples of SOME Blu-rays around the $15 mark...and many even less...buy away.... it costs A LOT more to produce a blu-ray....in many cases we're talking about going back to the original film stock and having to fix things....if the film was not properly taken care of it will show BIG TIME in High Def...so the studios need to take their time....not to mention we can't just take old DVD scans and put them on Blu-ray discs...they need to go back and re-do ALL of their scans in high def now....

[Metfanant]

Screw that. If they can't do it in retail, then sales aren't going to ad up. Not everyone can or will shop online.

what do you want?....it was said "if BD;s were $20 then i'd have more"well i just linked to the BEST SELLERS on amazon where probably half of them are in that price range if not lower...but now its not good enough....

not everyone can or will shop online?? but digital distribution is the future??....let me see....Amazon.com vs Best Buy.....from Amazon i pay $0 in shipping....and $0 in sales tax.....and usually get my items in 3-4 days....from best buy i pay a higher price +tax....hmm....its your loss if you don't take advantage of it....welcome to 1999

its not Sony saying "you have to sell these for this much" that much is obvious....if Amazon can sell them for that cheap, so can Best Buy....its Best Buy's decision, nobody else...

[Azu]

Reminds me of Apple vs PC desktops... Apple's market share doubles in 4 years... MS still owns 90+% of the market.

This is nothing like Mac vs PC. :| Apple's Macs are competing products which are meant to be alternatives for PCs. Bluray is a thing that is supposed to replace DVDs, it's a product that is pretty much like DVD, but with vastly superior picture & sound quality. Bluray is the normal kind of evolution of technology that happens all the time. I'd rather compare the DVD vs. Bluray situation to SDTV vs HDTV one some years back. At first HDTVs were a minimal minority of sold TVs. Nowadays it can sometimes be hard to find SDTVs from some stores, most TVs nowadays are at least HD Ready.

The only thing that, atm, is preventing Bluray from totally replacing DVD is price. As soon as Bluray players get cheap enough, the prices of new Bluray releases are +/- 20$s and the prices of HDTVs drop even lower (nowadays they are starting to get so cheap that even "regular" consumers can get the bigger kind of Full HD TVs, not just teck geeks), you can be sure that Blurays will become more and more popular, at some point exceeding the sales of DVDs.

No, but you could find some around the $15 mark.

They need to lower the prices of the BD.
You can find tons of Blurays for 15$ too and even cheaper. I just bought Pan's Labyrinth (new) for 12 dollars from Amazon.com. You can just blame yourself if you look from the wrong places where they sell Blurays for 30$, because there are tons of places that sell cheap Blurays.

[Stoffinator]

i just gave you a link above to lots of examples of SOME Blu-rays around the $15 mark...and many even less...buy away.... it costs A LOT more to produce a blu-ray....in many cases we're talking about going back to the original film stock and having to fix things....if the film was not properly taken care of it will show BIG TIME in High Def...so the studios need to take their time....not to mention we can't just take old DVD scans and put them on Blu-ray discs...they need to go back and re-do ALL of their scans in high def now....

I use to work in this field and I can tell you most movies on Bluray right now do not get taken the time for a proper transfers, they are in fact just DVD thrown onto the BD. ;-] This is a quick grab for the studios, it was the same from VHS to DVD. And it cost more to product BD yes, but I doubt "much" more. BD has been out long enough that they should be able to charge between $20 and $25 for most movies, and not $30 and up.

what do you want?....it was said "if BD;s were $20 then i'd have more"well i just linked to the BEST SELLERS on amazon where probably half of them are in that price range if not lower...but now its not good enough....

not everyone can or will shop online?? but digital distribution is the future??....let me see....Amazon.com vs Best Buy.....from Amazon i pay $0 in shipping....and $0 in sales tax.....and usually get my items in 3-4 days....from best buy i pay a higher price +tax....hmm....its your loss if you don't take advantage of it....welcome to 1999

its not Sony saying "you have to sell these for this much" that much is obvious....if Amazon can sell them for that cheap, so can Best Buy....its Best Buy's decision, nobody else...

Like I said, not everyone can shop online for different reasons.

And don't double post.

[Metfanant]

oh man....

I use to work in this field and I can tell you most movies on Bluray right now do not get taken the time for a proper transfers, they are in fact just DVD thrown onto the BD. ;-]



you simply can't possibly understand how things work....i would agree that the films don't get the proper treatment, but to say most are just DVD scans is ignorant....DVD scans just don't have the information needed to complete the 1080p resolution....DVD's are 720x480....BD's are 1920x1080....if you want to see what a DVD scan on BD looks like check out "28 Days Later" it came from a non-HD source, and it looks like garbage!....and i've yet to run across a BD or HD-DVD that looks ANYWHERE near as bad....not even in the same league...it is simply IMPOSSIBLE to transplant a DVD scan to a BD and try to pass it off as HD, it just doesn't work that way. It would be BLATANTLY obvious what was going on....it would look WORSE that upscaled DVD....at least with upscaled DVD's your player can use algorithms to insert information to create quasi-HD....but now you're just putting a 720x480 source and stretching it out to 1920x1080....YIKES!


This is a quick grab for the studios, it was the same from VHS to DVD. And it cost more to product BD yes, but I doubt "much" more.



"By the time we get in the fourth quarter of this year, there will be a problem with capacity," said Jim Bottoms, co-managing director of research firm Understanding & Solutions to Home Media Magazine (http://www.homemediamagazine.com/) earlier this month. The research firm says that it will take an investment of $250 million and 80 new production lines to meet the demand of both Blu-ray movies, as PS3 games.
There are several things that create a tough climate for disc replicators, and make the decision to go 'blu' even harder. In the first place AACS encryption, mastering, authoring, replication and packaging make costs go up, which makes the risk larger for independents. Secondly, it's an expensive process. Home Media Magazine shows that some replicators pay $2.7 million for a 50GB BD line.


drop in the bucket for disc manufacturers? yikes....you can't just simply start making BD's...you have to convert your entire production lines from DVD to BD, or add totally new BD lines to your production plants...this means construction costs, infrastructure costs, labor costs, software costs, you name it it costs more....


BD has been out long enough that they should be able to charge between $20 and $25 for most movies, and not $30 and up.

They do charge those amounts....

www.amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com)

not my fault that some retailers charge you more....

Like I said, not everyone can shop online for different reasons.

And don't double post.

like i said welcome to 1999...there is really little reason to not be able to shop online....ESPECIALLY considering that high def owners are still early adopters...

oh and i didn't double post...

[TGO]

You ppl can't be complaining about the price of BD's can you?
Wait I can understand if you're referring to in-store prices, but online (games & music is the same)
the price difference between BD & DVD new releases is usually the price of a packet of cigs.

here see amazon.co.uk
Sweeney Todd
DVD - £12.99
BD - £17.99

Are can't see the problem, any cheaper & they would be the price of DVD's ( which some are )
And that wouldn't make sense.

[mcav]

Welcome to the internet - full of people who whine and moan and talk big about completely trivial stuff like release dates for games, films, the price of blu-ray, the price of anything really.

A lot of them can't shop online because they are not old enough to own a credit card.

That's really just tough titties.