So...Hillary won Pennsylvania

[FizzeL]

So she won PA. She really played dirty in this election. I can't believe people still can't see through all of her bull that she's been saying. It's also the old voters that voted for Hillary. The old white voters lived through the 1950s/1960s so many of them are racist against blacks, so no doubt that's why they voted for Hillary instead of Obama.

Right now it seems that Hillary is in the lead now with more delegates, but remember, we still have 9 more states coming up, and if Obama wins at least half the states and gets most of the superdelegates on his side...Obama will win the nomination.

[Stevie Carnage]

At this point I'm hoping that Hillary wins. Obama hasn't shown me anything that would be worthy of my vote, and although Hillary hasn't either, she plans on spending less money. Which is something that is crucial when the country is in debt.

[Ixquiz]

I thought obama had more delegates

http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard/?d=PA

[Vulgotha]

They've all played "Dirty" in this election. Sheesh.


But I honestly wouldn't worry about Hillary. I don't anybody stopping Neo-JFK, err- Barak Obama anytime soon.

[DayWalker]

he made a good show of it...

i mean a month ago he was a 25 pt underdog... and it looks like he shrunk that down to 7-8 pts.

the democrats are blowing it!!!!!!!!
it's never going to end!!!!

[Vulgotha]

Well it was the same with Giuliani. Nobody expected him to flop as massively as he did. With the exception of Limbaugh, he predicted McCain from the start.

But I honestly thought (after Giulianiamazingly screwed up) that Romni would win the nomination.... Funny how these things work out.

But yea, those other poor saps in the Democratic race never had a chance. Hillary and Obama? Like Edwards or anyone else could have possibly made any difference...

[WaspMonkey]

That's right I'm the racist white person who voted for Hilary because I hate black people. :rolleyes: And here it was I was thinking the OP was sexist for not voting for Hilary. I'm sure he is from the 50's and 60's and has hang-ups about a woman being in a position of power.

[dondidit]

They've all played "Dirty" in this election. Sheesh.


But I honestly wouldn't worry about Hillary. I don't anybody stopping Neo-JFK, err- Barak Obama anytime soon.


AMEN Plus rep too you. All of them play dirty jokes but when its all said and done mccain, obama and hillary all got experience in something I think that Hillary has the experience and with bill being her husband I think its time to clean up the mess a republican got us in gas is too much and I ain't got the time worrying about another republican making it go up to 6 dollars a gallon

[Vulgotha]

I'm a conservative. I in no way endorse barak nor Hillary Dondidit.

[dondidit]

I'm a conservative. I in no way endorse barak nor Hillary Dondidit.

And in truth I endorse no one because politics are nothing but lies to get into a seat in the senate and lie to us again. I just don't understand why there isn't a committee that can override and impeach those who are corrupted.

[Vulgotha]

Because they themselves would probably be corrupt in turn. (though "Corrupt" is a relative term. Our politicians certainly aren't as bad as the Russian ones, for example).

In the end, it just isn't that simple and clear cut Dondidit. Ever.

[JoNJoN]

The old white voters lived through the 1950s/1960s so many of them are racist against blacks, so no doubt that's why they voted for Hillary instead of Obama.

Democrats calling other democrats RACIST??? HAHAHAHA I absolutely LOVE THIS. This is pure enjoyment watching this party eat itself alive. Man, your convention is gonna be pure entertainment when the riots start...

Daywalker, can't say I didn't warn you this would happen...

[sonyfan6]

Although Clinton won Penn, she didn't win it by enough to make the math any better for her. She's in a really deep hole now and needs 69% of the remaining pledged delegates to catch up.

[weskurtz81]

AMEN Plus rep too you. All of them play dirty jokes but when its all said and done mccain, obama and hillary all got experience in something I think that Hillary has the experience and with bill being her husband I think its time to clean up the mess a republican got us in gas is too much and I ain't got the time worrying about another republican making it go up to 6 dollars a gallon

Do you know why gas is so expensive?

[DayWalker]

Daywalker, can't say I didn't warn you this would happen...

I wouldn't be upset about a prolonged race if HRC wasn't throwing the kitchen sink at Obama.

I mean the chances of her getting the nomination at this point are slim to none.
And yet she is still trying to make Obama appear un-electable in the fall.

Vulg- I disagree. While neither campaign is innocent of mud slinging. The Clinton campaign has been far more negative. (as exits polls all over the country support)

Do you know why gas is so expensive?

yes. China.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also just wanna point out that she is losing by about 150 delegates...
and she only netted 12 last night in PA.

So she still has miles to go- especially with mor3e Obama states on the horizon.
his lead might get up to 160 in the coming weeks.

[weskurtz81]

Daywalker,

I guess that is kind of a loaded question, because there are many reasons gas is so expensive. One of the BIG reasons gas is so expensive though is the value of the US Dollar has dropped through the floor. Obviously supply and demand as well, along with a number of other issues like no new refineries built in 30+ years and crap like that.

[sonyfan6]

It's sort of amusing that all the states that are "must wins" for Clinton are ones that she is up by 20 or more points. I mean, if Senator Obama did manage to beat her in one of these "must win" states she should not only drop out but be truly ashamed at blowing such an enormous lead. In Penn. it came down to the elderly vote, which Clinton does very well with. Obama tends to get the best result among new voters, independents and republicans that are switching teams (not to mention African Americans). For all the talk of white men, Obama and Clinton split that group closely. Penn. only allowed registered Democrats to vote, which cuts into Obama's support from independents. Additionally, the state has one of the oldest averages ages (again a plus for Clinton), it's right next door to NY, which is a Clinton power base and as such Clinton was able to get support from just about every elected democrat in Penn. With all of that in her favor if she still lost it would have been a miracle.

Next up we have North Carolina, an Obama stronghold that Clinton isn't even going to try to make headway in and Indiana. Some of her staff said she had to win Penn. and Indiana to continue. If so, Indiana is the first neutral "must win" this race. Maybe we'll see something interesting there.

[Queso]

Obama will not defeat Mc Cain not a chance in hell, the only hope for the dem party is Mrs. Clinton. Just ask yourself if you want four more years of a republican white house,
if you do go on ahead and vote Obama

[DayWalker]

It's sort of amusing that all the states that are "must wins" for Clinton are ones that she is up by 20 or more points. I mean, if Senator Obama did manage to beat her in one of these "must win" states she should not only drop out but be truly ashamed at blowing such an enormous lead. In Penn. it came down to the elderly vote, which Clinton does very well with. Obama tends to get the best result among new voters, independents and republicans that are switching teams (not to mention African Americans). For all the talk of white men, Obama and Clinton split that group closely. Penn. only allowed registered Democrats to vote, which cuts into Obama's support from independents. Additionally, the state has one of the oldest averages ages (again a plus for Clinton), it's right next door to NY, which is a Clinton power base and as such Clinton was able to get support from just about every elected democrat in Penn. With all of that in her favor if she still lost it would have been a miracle.

Next up we have North Carolina, an Obama stronghold that Clinton isn't even going to try to make headway in and Indiana. Some of her staff said she had to win Penn. and Indiana to continue. If so, Indiana is the first neutral "must win" this race. Maybe we'll see something interesting there.

I really don't understand the argument to be honest.

I mean- who says that b/c Obama lost to Clinton in NY, Cali, PA, etc (big staes) that these states are suddenly going to vote Republican???

I think they are both strong candidates... but I wish they would quit attacking each other with nonsense, stick to the issues and McCain.

[WaspMonkey]

Next up we have North Carolina, an Obama stronghold that Clinton isn't even going to try to make headway in and Indiana. Some of her staff said she had to win Penn. and Indiana to continue. If so, Indiana is the first neutral "must win" this race. Maybe we'll see something interesting there.


Bill has been stumping quite a bit here in NC so I wouldn't say that Hilary has completely given up on this state. Likely? No, but she has at least one supporter here...me baby me!

[Dorfdad]

I live in PA and it was expected she would win her, and she did PA is a Racist state as well as many others. Look at the votes in Philly and Pittsburg Obama did good with white and black voters. In between Obama was killed.

Im embarrsed about PA, the fact that everyone want's to go backwards in this country is horrible. Hillary Clinton Offers NOTHING except the baggage she brings with Bill Clinton. They are not in it for you and me, they are in it for themselves.

The SAD thing is that John Mccain while a great guy and war vet he will not chnage anything from what we have today. He's not going to make this a better place, Oil go down or improve the economy, or change politics in any way hes George Bush Part 2 with better speech patterns.

Obama with his inexperience offers a chance to change something sadly the democrats are going to lose this regardless of who wins Hillary or Obama the party is split and will vote for McCain over the Black or Women candidate.

Hillary slaps me of a power hungry person who will say and do ANYTHING to get what she wants at anyone else's experience. Shes lies right into the Camera, crys for votes, and basically plays dirty all the time.

[sonyfan6]

Bill has been stumping quite a bit here in NC so I wouldn't say that Hilary has completely given up on this state. Likely? No, but she has at least one supporter here...me baby me!

I should have been more specific. I don't have any insider information here, just what the news was saying, which was that she was not going to be spending much money or using much of her time to campaign in NC, instead focusing almost exclusively on Indiana, which is a much closer contest.

Obama will not defeat Mc Cain not a chance in hell, the only hope for the dem party is Mrs. Clinton. Just ask yourself if you want four more years of a republican white house,
if you do go on ahead and vote Obama

What are you basing this statement on. Polls and voter turn out indicate the exact opposite. Even McCain's camp says the opposite. They have a much better chance of winning against Senator Clinton then they do winning against Senator Obama. What is it exactly that you are basing this statement on?

[DayWalker]

I think he needs to win Indiana... his inability to put her away is starting to raise some brows.
but I mean come on... it's not like she's not a strong candidate.

If he wins NC by about 10 points he basically erases all of HRC's popular vote gains...

[Queso]

due to the fact that the united states is not color blind, there are too many bigots to allow a black man to be the president.

[Vulgotha]

..If you really think that'll stop Obama you're incorrect. "Race issues" aren't as horrible and fierce as "Individuals" would like you to think.

Not that racism is dead- certainly not.

But given that BLACK MAN is running for president, (agaisnt a WOMAN) and has the best chance of being our next president- I'd say the "Race" argument is, for all intents and purposes, out the window. Sure, it could slide some states.. But nationally? No.

Naturally however, the handouts and race quotas will never stop. Even with a black president. ...

Our society needs to purge itself of it's "Reverse" racism.

[DayWalker]

..If you really think that'll stop Obama you're incorrect. "Race issues" aren't as horrible and fierce as "Individuals" would like you to think.

Not that racism is dead- certainly not.

But given that BLACK MAN is running for president, (agaisnt a WOMAN) and has the best chance of being our next president- I'd say the "Race" argument is, for all intents and purposes, out the window. Sure, it could slide some states.. But nationally? No.

Naturally however, the handouts and race quotas will never stop. Even with a black president. ...

Our society needs to purge itself of it's "Reverse" racism.

there's no such thing as reverse racism.

there's racism. period.

[Vulgotha]

I refer to it as "Reverse Racism" in the sense that it isn't what it used to be anymore. There are "Protected" Minority groups who get away with a free political pass on alot of issues.

Example:

Whites decide to make "WET" (White Entertainment Television). I can promise you it'd be sued and shutdown within a matter of weeks. For "Racism" and "Bigotry".

But BET does fine.



Note: I'm not saying it's totally one sided. I'm just saying alot of people are irritated with this. High Schools teaching all these race sensitivity classes, and the "Slave Narratives" and reading books like "Invisible Man".

What does this do? Well it does this:

Whites: Feel guilty and nervous around blacks
Blacks: Feel pissed off and indignant.

^ How is this "Fixing" Anything?! This is government's idea of "Fixing" our race issues? Please.

[DayWalker]

I refer to it as "Reverse Racism" in the sense that it isn't what it used to be anymore. There are "Protected" Minority groups who get away with a free political pass on alot of issues.

Example:

Whites decide to make "WET" (White Entertainment Television). I can promise you it'd be sued and shutdown within a matter of weeks. For "Racism" and "Bigotry".

But BET does fine.



Note: I'm not saying it's totally one sided. I'm just saying alot of people are irritated with this. High Schools teaching all these race sensitivity classes, and the "Slave Narratives" and reading books like "Invisible Man".

What does this do? Well it does this:

Whites: Feel guilty and nervous around blacks
Blacks: Feel pissed off and indignant.

^ How is this "Fixing" Anything?! This is government's idea of "Fixing" our race issues? Please.

:lol:

I hate the BET example: excuse us for not being able to relate to Full House!!! (if anyone mentions Urkel I will throw something at you)

Until recently- WET was cable television.

And perhaps you're looking at it wrong- it's not race sensitivity classes. it's good literature that has great historical context. And it's certainly to a government mandate- least not where I am from.

you're not supposed to feel guilty, we're not supposed to get pissed off- but we are supposed to gain a little perspective and enlightenment.

[Feuerstarter]

And my view of the USA ever diminishes...

[weskurtz81]

:lol:

I hate the BET example: excuse us for not being able to relate to Full House!!! (if anyone mentions Urkel I will throw something at you)

Until recently- WET was cable television.

And perhaps you're looking at it wrong- it's not race sensitivity classes. it's good literature that has great historical context. And it's certainly to a government mandate- least not where I am from.

you're not supposed to feel guilty, we're not supposed to get pissed off- but we are supposed to gain a little perspective and enlightenment.

I think a better example would be affirmative action. Generally speaking, one should not be admitted to an institute of higher learning or job based on race, it should be on qualifications alone, and race in most circumstances does not qualify you for something more than the next person.

One thing I have noticed, the candidates have been talking an awful lot about what they are going to do about health care, energy, the war... and so on. But, something no one is really talking about is rampant government spending. They want to institute some form of national healthcare when the current fed healthcare is near bankruptcy, along with a slew of other government programs. They are spending a little over $10,000 a person in the medicare program, and it is a large chunk of the budget, but where is all this extra money going to come from to foot the bill for yet another health care program? How is it going to be more successful than the garbage they already have "running"? How are they going to reduce the deficit and the $53 Trillion in direct and indirect debt? How are they going to stop the slide of the USD? Are they going to continue supporting the sham that is ethanol? Are they going to drill in the US and ease restrictions to promote building new refineries? We have problems that stem much further than health care, but people don't seem to understand that. Even with the current social medicine, they are saying they will have to cut benefits by up to 50% or increase payroll taxes by about 120% to make to get them out of the hole.

Yeah, we haven't learned yet, we want more of the same from our crappy government with it's insatiable need to spend WAY more money than it brings in driving the value of a dollar down and the amount of national debt through the roof. Good call Washington.... good call.

[Grinchy]

:lol:

I hate the BET example: excuse us for not being able to relate to Full House!!! (if anyone mentions Urkel I will throw something at you)

Until recently- WET was cable television.



I hate the BET example too, but I hate the counter-argument even more. To say that all TV is "White Entertainment Television" is ridiculous.

On topic, I'd be happy with either Hilary or Obama. In fact I wouldn't even be all that opposed to seeing McCain take over. This is the first time where I actually liked all the candidates.

[DayWalker]

I think a better example would be affirmative action. Generally speaking, one should not be admitted to an institute of higher learning or job based on race, it should be on qualifications alone, and race in most circumstances does not qualify you for something more than the next person.
.

I would agree but you have to remember that AA was created b/c blacks weren't being considered for positions whether they were qualified or not.

so while race certainly isn't something that should get you a job- it was certainly something that could lose you one.

I hate the BET example too, but I hate the counter-argument even more. To say that all TV is "White Entertainment Television" is ridiculous.

i wish I had some hard numbers for you- but I am going off of pure memory...

but I remember reading that going into the 90s, the amount of percentage of time a person of color was on your tv screen was abysmal.

hence the creation of BET...

[weskurtz81]

I would agree but you have to remember that AA was created b/c blacks weren't being considered for positions whether they were qualified or not.

so while race certainly isn't something that should get you a job- it was certainly something that could lose you one.


This I do understand, but this is the "reverse racism" that Vulgotha was referring to. This eliminates one problem, to a certain extent, and creates another. It doesn't stop people from filling positions due to race, or reduce some unfair advantage, it just move the advantage to the other side of the isle, if you will. All that happened with AA is, the positions swapped, and it is just as wrong as it was the other way around. You have people who are ticked because they get denied because they are not the right color, while less qualified people get extra points for being the right color...... I thought we were trying to stop racial discrimination?

[DayWalker]

This I do understand, but this is the "reverse racism" that Vulgotha was referring to. This eliminates one problem, to a certain extent, and creates another. It doesn't stop people from filling positions due to race, or reduce some unfair advantage, it just move the advantage to the other side of the isle, if you will. All that happened with AA is, the positions swapped, and it is just as wrong as it was the other way around. You have people who are ticked because they get denied because they are not the right color, while less qualified people get extra points for being the right color...... I thought we were trying to stop racial discrimination?

i dunno- i feel where you're coming from.

keep in mind that most universities try to keep their student population diverse (not talking about race- but ability)
they don't just try to to fill the school with A students.

basically there is a line and everyone above that has a chance to get it- and there are a lot of people who want to get in.

Anyone see that Chris Rock stand up on AA???
"I don't want anything given to me that I don't deserve... but if it's a tie... **** em!!!! Y'all had a 300 year head start" :lol:

Anyways- we're way off topic.
A new thread should be created if this convo is to be continued.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
edit
On a personal note- there a re so few African-Americans graduating HS that are eligible for collge in the first place-
if you really did get "screwed" you clearly didn't do enough to set yourself apart.

[weskurtz81]

It's not that big of a deal to me, but I could understand why some people would get ticked, and the argument is valid, just hasn't ever affected me personally, as far as I know.

How about we talk about the other stuff I posted? Those are some questions I would like to have answered, which are valid somewhat to this thread. How do they plan to do all this already running a deficit, plus already having all these failed social programs to begin with? Are they going to just steal more of our money like they did with SS? I wouldn't be surprised....

[DayWalker]

It's not that big of a deal to me, but I could understand why some people would get ticked, and the argument is valid, just hasn't ever affected me personally, as far as I know.

How about we talk about the other stuff I posted? Those are some questions I would like to have answered, which are valid somewhat to this thread. How do they plan to do all this already running a deficit, plus already having all these failed social programs to begin with? Are they going to just steal more of our money like they did with SS? I wouldn't be surprised....

well regarding spending...

I don't think that will improve no matter who gets elected.

democrats will tax and spend...
republicans will tax a little less and spend just as much :lol:

Washington just doesn't know how to be fiscally responsible...

[weskurtz81]

well regarding spending...

I don't think that will improve no matter who gets elected.

democrats will tax and spend...
republicans will tax a little less and spend just as much :lol:

Washington just doesn't know how to be fiscally responsible...

Well, if this trend continues, it will be the undoing of American as we know it. The Washington spending habits can be attributed to the cause of MANY of our current problems. If they didn't spend the way they do, SS would be fine, the Dollar would be worth more, oil would cost less (because a more valuable dollar), and the list can go on and on. If the Dollar continues to fall, and oil continues to rise, this country and the world for that matter will crumble. We are about to be back in the 80's, and it might even be worse this time.

Edit: both Dem's and Repub's seem to be a different form of the same evil today. They have the labels, but the labels hold very little meaning like they once did. The lines have been skewed, and we, as Americans, are getting screwed.

[DayWalker]

Well, if this trend continues, it will be the undoing of American as we know it. The Washington spending habits can be attributed to the cause of MANY of our current problems. If they didn't spend the way they do, SS would be fine, the Dollar would be worth more, oil would cost less (because a more valuable dollar), and the list can go on and on. If the Dollar continues to fall, and oil continues to rise, this country and the world for that matter will crumble. We are about to be back in the 80's, and it might even be worse this time.

i whole heartedly agree...

but I mean... every administration has said they were going to be fiscally responsible...

I've only seen one admin actually do it... Clinton ;) (of course the elephants take all the credit for it)

[Vulgotha]

Weskurtz is summing it up nicely.

I threw out the book invisible man (which I do openly and freedly admire and admit that it has good points). However race sensitivity classes, aren't "Mandatory" per se, but it's politically correct and highly encouraged by our federal government.

I do not think, that whites should feel "Bad". We didn't do anything, it was our ancestors. What we should do, is learn from our mistakes.

Once we stop viewing people by color- that is the end of racism. Saying "Jeez we're sorry colored people. Have a slice of quota pie and go along and run free making BET and stuff..." ~ Still refers to them as individuals of color, thus making things "Black and White" again. We keep creating these schisms and cross cutting cleavages. Even if we're doing it out of good nature.

View people as people.

It also isn't helping that the African Community is seeking to define itself NOT by religion, but by it's skin color\ethnicity. Kwanzaa, for example. Rap.. And I do realize that this was taking place (due to social ostracizing) waaaay back.. But it's getting worse now, to the point where it's detrimental to the black culture as a whole. Thus spawns more bigotry.

They're rapidly trying to fabricate a fraudulent "Culture" based around pigment color. Going so far as to create their own Christmas holiday that isn't even rooted in any religion really. It's a "Black holiday". I wouldn't say that Christmas (Christian) or Hanukkah (Jewish) is based around "Being white". It's based around a religion.

It's cyclical. We have to get off color and look at people as people.

[DayWalker]

Weskurtz is summing it up nicely.

I threw out the book invisible man (which I do openly and freedly admire and admit that it has good points). However race sensitivity classes, aren't "Mandatory" per se, but it's politically correct and highly encouraged by our federal government.

I do not think, that whites should feel "Bad". We didn't do anything, it was our ancestors. What we should do, is learn from our mistakes.

Once we stop viewing people by color- that is the end of racism. Saying "Jeez we're sorry colored people. Have a slice of quota pie and go along and run free making BET and stuff..." ~ Still refers to them as individuals of color, thus making things "Black and White" again. We keep creating these schisms and cross cutting cleavages. Even if we're doing it out of good nature.

View people as people.

It also isn't helping that the African Community is seeking to define itself NOT by religion, but by it's skin color\ethnicity. Kwanzaa, for example. Rap.. And I do realize that this was taking place (due to social ostracizing) waaaay back.. But it's getting worse now, to the point where it's detrimental to the black culture as a whole. Thus spawns more bigotry.

They're rapidly trying to fabricate a fraudulent "Culture" based around pigment color. Going so far as to create their own Christmas holiday that isn't even rooted in any religion really. It's a "Black holiday". I wouldn't say that Christmas (Christian) or Hanukkah (Jewish) is based around "Being white". It's based around a religion.

It's cyclical. We have to get off color and look at people as people.

i think you are generalizing the race bit much...
Kwanzaa is very much fringe...
Rap does suck- but most blacks over the age of 18 know that... (the good stuff never gets played)

[Vulgotha]

I think you're being optimistic of the situation. A new generation of young African Americans are growing up immersed in this culture. Heavily.

I do my best not to generalize.. But the fact remains the blacks are trying to "Unite themselves" based off of ethnicity... This will only lead to more problems. We need to rally under one thing, as Americans. As people.

[weskurtz81]

i whole heartedly agree...

but I mean... every administration has said they were going to be fiscally responsible...

I've only seen one admin actually do it... Clinton ;) (of course the elephants take all the credit for it)

Yup, it is crazy to think Clinton actually balanced the budget towards the end of his term. He was lucky that we didn't have any major military affairs during that time, and by cutting quite a bit of defense, he did manage to balance the budget.

However it happens, it is absolutely detrimental to the survival of this nation that we get this deficit under control. I just feel as if we are on the verge of slipping into obscurity if something doesn't happen. I think the only thing saving us right now is that the Chinese and Taiwanese hold so much of our debt. They don't want the dollar to tank, it hurts the investment they have in US debt. It's just a real shame what has been happening over the past 10-20 years, and the majority of the population here is ignorant to this massive problem we have. Not even the politicians want to talk about it, they know if they don't say anything that the population will be none the wiser and think that the main problem facing the country is medical coverage, in which case, the politicians can come to the rescue saying "we will spend a lot more, tax a little more, and give everyone coverage"....... I am going to start my own country, I am going to call it Texas ;)

[DayWalker]

I think you're being optimistic of the situation. A new generation of young African Americans are growing up immersed in this culture. Heavily.

I do my best not to generalize.. But the fact remains the blacks are trying to "Unite themselves" based off of ethnicity... This will only lead to more problems. We need to rally under one thing, as Americans. As people.

well agree to disagree.

but to be real we've been united in race since we got here... it's nothing new.
:lol: faith was tried- no results.

[ferrismc]

Obama is still leading and it is unlikey hillary can win. Obama is the best man for the white house. go for it. he will do it.
reps should vote obama. if reps still vote for reps after all waht happened than this is truly idiotism.

[Vulgotha]

That's the thing. Persecution has predominately stopped (see Barak Obama running for president lol) but yet.. We're still not Americans.

What's worse is that the government is bending over backwards trying to apologize and give out all these free things. A sense of entitlement has begun to entrench itself.

I'm just saying we need to understand that the only way to get anything done, is to stop government hand outs. Quotas. Start treating them as people, instead of "Blacks". On the federal level.

..I understand what I'm saying sounds politically incorrect.. I only say it because I think it needs to be heard. I think America needs to stand united.

Instead of doing that which benefits your party. That which will generate more votes.

[DayWalker]

That's the thing. Persecution has predominately stopped (see Barak Obama running for president lol) but yet.. We're still not Americans.

What's worse is that the government is bending over backwards trying to apologize and give out all these free things. A sense of entitlement has begun to entrench itself.

I'm just saying we need to understand that the only way to get anything done, is to stop government hand outs. Quotas. Start treating them as people, instead of "Blacks". On the federal level.

..I understand what I'm saying sounds politically incorrect.. I only say it because I think it needs to be heard. I think America needs to stand united.

not just government.

the corporate sector, the education system, etc. etc.

I don't support hand outs either. i do support supporting diversity. especially at universities.

[weskurtz81]

Daywalker,

They don't play the good rap anymore do they? They play all this garbage gangster rap for the most part..... what ever happened to Vanilla Ice? JOKE!! I used to like some of the rap back in the day though, not so much anymore, it is always more of the same.

As far as Kwanza, I think it is probably a fringe thing. I think the biggest problem the African culture as a whole faces is single parent families and defeatest attitude. Obviously, it's probably a small percentage of the whole, but enough to be noticeable.

I grew up in a rural town, and had a bunch of black friends while in school, and I run into them every now and then when I go back there. One thing I will never forget is going on trail rides, that's right.... horses, hay trailer, and all.... with my black buddies. Growing up now, and after going all over the states, and visiting the east coast, the thought of that just seems so rare now. Not where I grew up, but I just experienced so much racial tension up in the north east, it was unbearable. And the people up there would say, "you don't understand, you didn't grow up here"..... they are right, I didn't, and still don't understand. I have african, asian, turkish, latino, and russian friends.... whatever, I know how my kids will be raised, and I think that is where it all starts..... having a strong family unit.... otherwise, you have nothing but an uphill battle.

Daywalker, obviously your a black dude, so don't take any of that personally.... I don't have a racist bone in my body, just some observations from my time traveling the country.

One other thing, the military is a great experience. Outside of joking with eachother, I never experienced one bit of racism in the military.... great comradery.

Edit: Vulgotha, good posts man.... We need to be Americans.... not colors or races.... or in my instance.... a Texan.

[Vulgotha]

I don't support "Diversity" if it means passing up another individual based solely off ethnicity. Meet the standards of the college\university.

And yes, I do factor in the various educational deficiencies when I say that. Not that our public education system is anything but trash anyways.

This is a hard thing to put your head around and fix.. There must be a middleground somewhere. Equilibrium has to be sought between our two train of thoughts.

A better alternative has to present itself. I don't feel 100% comfortable with what I said above.. But I see no other solution that is viable.

[DayWalker]

Daywalker,

They don't play the good rap anymore do they? They play all this garbage gangster rap for the most part..... what ever happened to Vanilla Ice? JOKE!! I used to like some of the rap back in the day though, not so much anymore, it is always more of the same.

As far as Kwanza, I think it is probably a fringe thing. I think the biggest problem the African culture as a whole faces is single parent families and defeatest attitude. Obviously, it's probably a small percentage of the whole, but enough to be noticeable.

I grew up in a rural town, and had a bunch of black friends while in school, and I run into them every now and then when I go back there. One thing I will never forget is going on trail rides, that's right.... horses, hay trailer, and all.... with my black buddies. Growing up now, and after going all over the states, and visiting the east coast, the thought of that just seems so rare now. Not where I grew up, but I just experienced so much racial tension up in the north east, it was unbearable. And the people up there would say, "you don't understand, you didn't grow up here"..... they are right, I didn't, and still don't understand. I have african, asian, turkish, latino, and russian friends.... whatever, I know how my kids will be raised, and I think that is where it all starts..... having a strong family unit.... otherwise, you have nothing but an uphill battle.

Daywalker, obviously your a black dude, so don't take any of that personally.... I don't have a racist bone in my body, just some observations from my time traveling the country.

One other thing, the military is a great experience. Outside of joking with eachother, I never experienced one bit of racism in the military.... great comradery.

No worries- I don;t take offense. There a plethora of issues facing the race as you and Vulg mentioned.
Time heals all- we're just not there yet.

Like Obama says... ehem... :lol:... both sides need to try to understand where the other side is coming from before passing judgment.

On a side note-
I am petty sour on rap too. but don't give up on hip/hop and R&B. there is still a lot of great music out there that nobody hears.

People don't realize that the stuff aka **** they hear on the radio is usually just on there b/c it has a great beat and it generates sales- not b/c of its quality. It's just something you can bob your head to. :cool:

I don't support "Diversity" if it means passing up another individual based solely off ethnicity. Meet the standards of the college\university.

And yes, I do factor in the various educational deficiencies when I say that. Not that our public education system is anything but trash anyways.

This is a hard thing to put your head around and fix.. There must be a middleground somewhere. Equilibrium has to be sought between our two train of thoughts.

A better alternative has to present itself. I don't feel 100% comfortable with what I said above.. But I see no other solution that is viable.

i don't know why you automatically associate diversity with sub-par performance.

to me it means looking for students from different backgrounds who mee the schools standards.

[ryanworldleader]

Screw 'em both. VOTE MCCAIN!!!

[Vulgotha]

@ Daywalker.

I'm just going off the "Whoever applies first with the proper qualifications gets in" thing. That's all I'm saying. Regardless of color.

Don't have the colleges scrounge around.

Typically most individuals of your persuasion are agaisnt this because of this perceived educational gap, and how the colleges wouldn't ever admit black applicants. Or atleast this is the argument I've heard most (and I have heard it made frequently).

I'm not saying that blacks are "Dumb" or anything, don't jump the gun there. I was simply recognizing schools in the ghetto's and the etc, where this might be a bad thing...

If we go off your view of things, where there is no gap educationally- then I see absolutely no reason why we should have quotas. Let the colleges sort out the ones who meet the standards, and not look at race.

[DayWalker]

@ Daywalker.

I'm just going off the "Whoever applies first with the proper qualifications gets in" thing. That's all I'm saying. Regardless of color.

Don't have the colleges scrounge around.

Typically most individuals of your persuasion are agaisnt this because of this perceived educational gap, and how the colleges wouldn't ever admit black applicants. Or atleast this is the argument I've heard most (and I have heard it made frequently).

I'm not saying that blacks are "Dumb" or anything, don't jump the gun there. I was simply recognizing schools in the ghetto's and the etc, where this might be a bad thing...

If we go off your view of things, where there is no gap educationally- then I see absolutely no reason why we should have quotas. Let the colleges sort out the ones who meet the standards, and not look at race.

inner city school education is horrendous.
furthermore- most schools (to my knowledge) no longer have quotas- but still seek out diversity.

Personally- if a student of color from an inner city school is able pull himself out of the ghetto and qualify for a higher level education... give ti to him. He's already accomplished much more that the vast majority of suburban white kids who skated there way to a B average.

[Vulgotha]

Even that rings with a twang of racism DayWalker.


That's still a hand out. What is the point of "Standards" for a college or a university if you put this staple underneath it:

"If you're a colored inner city individual, you receive a free pass".

In effect that's what you're saying. So all of the qualified individuals who are white, just get the shaft. Thus spawns bitterness. Thus spawns racism.

I do understand that "White Flight" is essentially what created the ghetto's, and the lack of proper education of African Americans in the early years after Emancipation really is the catalyst for all of this- but now the pendulum is swinging the other way.

[DayWalker]

That's still a hand out. What is the point of "Standards" for a college or a university if you put this staple underneath it:

"If you're a colored inter city individual, you receive a free pass"?

In effect that's what you're saying. So all of the qualified individuals who are white, just get the shaft. Thus spawns bitterness. Thus spawns racism.

how is it a hand out?
I'm saying he was able to qualify for admission despite the fact he went to an inferior educational institute.

Thus he meets the school standards- and probably has a better work ethic and appreciation for a good education.

[Vulgotha]

In that case, if he met the standards then yes. Let him enter and proceed.

[DayWalker]

In that case, if he met the standards then yes. Let him enter and proceed.

:lol:

I was getting ready to throw something at you... whew!

that's what i mean when i say seek out diversity

[Vulgotha]

I thought you meant something else entirely.

[DayWalker]

there's no point in admitting someone who wasn't qualified. College is a whole different ball game that inner city or suburan HS.

they'd be gone in a year...

[Vulgotha]

I dunno man.. I just get so sick of whites I know referring to others as "That black guy" or "blacks"

And blacks I know saying "Whites" or "That white guy".. And taking (via force) a race sensitivity class just made me drown in anger and contempt (even further) for our public education system.

It didn't do anything for us. It didn't "Relieve racial tensions". The racists were still racists, the impressionable blacks were pissed off, and the impressionable whites felt nervous and intimidated.