Hardware Facts / Assumptions / Rumors

[DezNutz]

I think since there is so much half-information floating around on these forums it would be a good idea to start a string detailing what we know for fact, assumptions, and as rumors for each system. That way we could update this list with information as we know it:

PlayStation 3

FACT = RED
Assumptions = BLUE
RUMORS = GREEN

Processor
-Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
Collada XML support for PS3’s art assets interchange
OpenGL ES support for applications programming interface for 3-D graphics


Graphics Processing Unit
-RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
--It will support DirectX 9, Shader Models 3
CPU <--> GPU configuration (CPU could interact with the GPU).

RAM
-256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
8x more bandwidth

Sound
-Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-base processing)

System Bandwidth
-Main RAM 25.6GB/s
VRAM 22.4GB/s
RSX 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)

System Floating Point Performance
-2 TFLOPS

I/O
-USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash (Type I, II) x 1

Communication
-Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T)
x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)

Controller
-Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)

AV Output
-Screen size 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI HDMI out x 2
Analog AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1

Removable Media Optical Drive
-CD

PlayStation CD-ROM * read only
PlayStation 2 CD-ROM
CD-DA CD-DA (ROM), CD-R, CD-RW
SACD SACD Hybrid (CD layer), SACD HD
DualDisc DualDisc (audio side), DualDisc (DVD side)

DVD

PlayStation 2 DVD-ROM
PLAYSTATION 3 DVD-ROM
DVD-Video DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW

Blu-ray Disc

PLAYSTATION 3 BD-ROM
BD-Video BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE
-Blu-Ray media has 5x the storage as DVD
-Blu-Ray Drive has 5x data transfer rates as DVD
-Blu-Ray Drive can read Blu-Ray, DVD, and CD media.

Hard Disk Drive
-N/A
-PS3 will have a HDD (size unkown)


X-Box2

FACT = RED
Assumptions = BLUE
RUMORS = GREEN

Processor
-* 3 symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each
* 2 hardware threads per core; 6 hardware threads total
* 1 VMX-128 vector unit per core; 3 total
* 128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread
* 1 MB L2 cache
* 9 billion dot product operations per second
-CPU has three 3.0 GHz PowerPC cores. Each core is capable of two instructions per cycle and has an L1 cache with 32 KB for data and 32 KB for instructions.
-The three cores share 1 MB of L2 cache.
-Will only have 2 PC cores.
-Xbox2 combined chip power theoritcally reach 1TeraFlop
-X2 at 3 cores of 3.5 Ghz would be about 52.5 GFlops


Graphics Processing Unit
-* 500 MHz
* 10 MB embedded DRAM
* 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically-scheduled shader pipelines
* Unified shader architecture

-It will support, Shader Models 3
-Its clock speed is 500 MHz
-10 MB eDRAM on the GPU

RAM
-* 512 MB GDDR3 RAM
* 700 MHz DDR
* Unified memory architecture

-256 MB of system RAM

Memory Bandwidth
-* 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
* 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
* 21.6 GB/s front-side bus


Overall System Floating-Point Performance
-* 1 TFLOP

I/O
- * Support for up to 4 wireless game controllers
* 3 USB 2.0 ports
* 2 memory unit slots


Removable Media Optical Drive
-X-Box will make use of dual layered DVD drive
-usable space on each disc is up to 7 GB
--* 12X dual-layer DVD-ROM

Hard Disk Drive
-* Detachable and upgradeable 20 GB hard drive
-hard drive is optional
-2 GB of the drive will be used as game cache
-Microsoft's current plan is to require you to buy the hard drive to enable backward compatibility with current Xbox games.


Removable Media Drive

* Memory unit support starting at 64 MB
-64 MB to 1,024 MB memory cards
-8 MB is reserved for system use, leaving a 56 MB to 1,016 MB for user data

Internet Connection
-High speed compatible built in.
-Wi-Fi
-The system supports an optional wireless Internet router/adapter

Audio
-* Multichannel surround sound output
* Supports 48 KHz 16-bit audio
* 320 independent decompression channels
* 32-bit audio processing
* Over 256 audio channels

Other Hardware
-Xbox2 Wireless controller support
-Xenon will enable both wired and wireless controllers and comes with RF receivers for wireless options.
-will have a USB 2.0 camera. It's capable of 1.2 megapixel still shots and VGA video.
-Microsoft has eschewed the dual triggers for shoulder buttons, and the design is said to be a mixture between the current S-controllers and the current PS2 controllers.
-Controlers will not feature slots for memory cards, which, will be on the console itself
-There are three controller slots, two controllers on front of the system, plus one USB on the back
-Controllers have 2.5mm jacks for headset use


That is all I can think of now just of my head lol, if you got more info or can correct me on some things feel free to do so, and I will update the list.

Edit: EZ- added info

[Hellblazer]

for the Internet Connection part for the Xbox do you mean xbox and not ps3 (second part form the bottom)

[PS Gamer]

Removable Media Optical Drive
-PS3 will make use of Blu-Ray drive
-Blu-Ray media has 5x the storage as DVD
-Blu-Ray Drive has 5x data transfer rates as DVD
-Blu-Ray Drive can read Blu-Ray, DVD, and CD media.

Hard Disk Drive
-None

few things that are incorrect with that....one blu-ray disc can hold way more then just 5x dvd disc....usually dvd disc are 5gbs....the Blue ray disc (Dual layered) is around 50 gbs.

Also there have made a few assumptions of a harddrive in it....along with some fact pointing out to it....though there is no real news on if there will be a hd in it...but im betting 85% that there will be on in it.

[Playstation4life]

DVDs are usually 4.7GB so it would be able to hold 5x against digital versitile disk optical media. :D

[siren]

Dez was correct. You guys are comparing a single layer DVD to a Dual Layer Blu-Ray disc.

5x is just about on the mark.

[muchuukuri]

M$ has cofirmed that the X2 will have internet capabilities out of the box at GDC, the whole X2 LIVE! thing. I'm not sure what they're calling it... move that into red. Unless you mean that they'll have an onboard NIC, then I guess.

the PS3 having 2 CELLs is a rumor... it should be moved into the green.

P.S. Great idea, this is something that needs to be done.

[PeanutButterMunky]

the PS3 having 2 CELLs is a rumor... it should be moved into the green.
He didn't say it was fact, that's his "assumption." It seems like a logical assumption to me, but nothing will be fact until it's made public.

[DezNutz]

Thanks for all the corrections fellows keep em coming and I will update em.

Yeah I compare single layered DVD to single layered Blu-Rays, and vice versa, it roughly translates to 5x storage capacity. a little bit more on Blu-Ray but nothing to write home about.

A few things I woudl like to put in there but I don't remeber off hand:

Specifc cell numbers, flops ect..

Specific RAM numbers, I know that type of RAM in PS3 is suppopse to be faster but I don't remeber how much off hand..

I know some X-Box statements where made about how many flops there system could make, I dont remebr that of hand, but could put that in rumor sections..

There where also some specific chip design notedby developers for oth systems. I will look for that article...

[Playstation4life]

I thought they cut the XDR RAM size to keep on target, so they cut it to 256MB, unless they went back to the original

[siren]

Quick things

Assumption - Xbox2 combined chip power roughly 1TeraFlop
Fact - Xbox2 Wireless controller support (confirmed in GDC keynote and tied into Dashboard extended UI)
Assumption - Xbox2 Wireless network support (lots of talk about wireless in GDC keynote, would make sense)
Fact - Xbox2 all games Live Aware
Fact - Xbox2 all games support custom music (unknown what media can be used for music storage)
Fact - New XNA Studio development system that allows all computer languages to be used in a team collaberation development environment.

[PS Gamer]

Another thing about the PS3,

Fact- PS3 to feature Wifi along with PSP

[Kejun]

Assumption - Xbox2 combined chip power roughly 1TeraFlop


I do not think this is even remotely possible. As far as I could research the fastest processor I could find that was not a Cell could only reach around 5 GFlops / Ghz.

Being that the processor going into the X2 is just an upgrade of an already existing processor it will not be capable of even remotely close to 1TF. So the X2 at 3 cores of 3.5 Ghz would be about 52.5 GFlops. That is of course giving it the computing power of a processor from a no name company that never took off. Intel and AMD can only get about 1.5 GF / Ghz.

Now, I do acknowledge that putting cores together might make the GF climb slightly more so I will keep the 90GF capabilities of the X2 as possible.

[siren]

No name company? You do realize the Xenon Processor is made by IBM right?

The reason why I say assumption is because MS claimed this at GDC. It's not a rumor, but they haven't provided specifics to back up their claim yet so it is not fact.

[Kejun]

I did not say that the no name company was making the Xenon processor. Just that this company had the most powerful processor.

[Chaotic_King]

I'll believe that when I see it. Didn't Microsoft also claim "Toy Story" as well? (Sony may have, although, I've never seen a direct quote from Sony)

[Rpgamer_2005]

MS believes that that Xenon will be able to match, if not exceed the PS3 even if it can crunch 1 TF. They feel that PS3 will be like the PS2 and just waste a lot of power. Seems like wishfull thinking, especially when Sony has not revealed their card.

[The_One]

Specific RAM numbers, I know that type of RAM in PS3 is suppopse to be faster but I don't remeber how much off hand..
8x on average. It is possible to clock it up to 6.4Ghz for 16x more bandwidth (So I'm assuming the ones going into the PS3 would be clocked at 3.2Ghz).

[gaming ultima]

bout the memory, actually up to 16 chips can be used per stick using the XDR interface tech, and several sticks can be used per cell chip
blu-ray transfer rate is 36Mbps, DVD is 11Mbps (if you round it), that is not a 5x difference
also you wrote that the ps3 gpu will support dx9 and shader model 3, now that is very debatable, and what a lot of people think is that it will use a equivalent to it, ie either the open gl high level shadier language or a variation of it

[The_One]

Graphics Processing Unit
-In December 2004, Nvidia announced that they have been in a multi-year agreement with SCEI to develop the PlayStation 3's GPU
--It will support DirectX 9, Shader Models 3
Oh yeah, you should put this in green:
CPU <--> GPU configuration (CPU could interact with the GPU).

[muchuukuri]

Gaming Ultima 36Mbps is for HD-DVD, 54 if I remember correctly is for Blu-ray.

[Epsilon-Zero]

I think some of the new Live features that were highlihted at GDC should be up there under Online facts.

Under Sony Online rumors should be the phrase "Cyber World" and whats been said about Square-Enix being involved with it.

[Schmeh]

Gaming Ultima 36Mbps is for HD-DVD, 54 if I remember correctly is for Blu-ray.

You are correct. Blu-ray features a transfer rate of 54Mbps and HD-DVD is 36.5Mbps. The website www.blu-ray.com lists this on the FAQ page. It also says that the 1x speed for writing a blu-ray disc is 36.5Mbps, that they are currently working on 2x which will be 73Mbps and that they expect to get up to 8x or 292Mbps.

[Chaotic_King]

Can I see something of the whole "Cyber World"? I've heard things of it, but never read too much about it.

[DezNutz]

Cool guys thanks for the list I will list my updates here;

Playsattion4Life - If you read the statement "64 Megabyte per RAM chip) of XDR DRAM, with Rambus' interface technology. Up to four can be used per Cell chip, for a maximum RAM figure of 256 Megabytes per Cell Chip. " It states that you can have 4 cjips per cell,for 256MB of RAM per Cell proccessor.

Siren -
1TeraFlop _ I added as rumour becuase there is no technical documents to back this up, I can provide technical documents for the Cell theoritcal reach, but this is just one statement from one person with no backup or proof.
Fact - Xbox2 Wireless controller support (confirmed in GDC keynote and tied into Dashboard extended UI) - added
Assumption - Xbox2 Wireless network support (lots of talk about wireless in GDC keynote, would make sense) -added wi-fi
Fact - Xbox2 all games Live Aware - not really hardware.. thinking I should add software section..
Fact - Xbox2 all games support custom music (unknown what media can be used for music storage) - again not hardware but should og in software.. also makes me thinkg the hard drive may not be optional....
Fact - New XNA Studio development system that allows all computer languages to be used in a team collaberation development environment. -- Added this to proccesor since some of thishas to be embedded onto firmware.

The_One - added 8x as assumption to RAM & added CPU-GPU under rumor

gaming Ultima - I cannot find a source to back up your RAM per chip.. I got my information from the makers of the RAM who confirmed development for the PS3 and provided that specific information on how it was being built.. I can find a source it should be easy enough...
-Blu-Ray is 54 and DVD is 11, HD-DVD is 34.. check www.blu-ray.com
-as far as the dx9 and shader 3.0. these details where revealed to the public this week at the GDC.. should be easy finidng a source.. http://www.ps3portal.com/?view=article&article=88&PHPSESSID=d85318dbcb7b78e7672e633b404309bc try that..


Zero - Live features are again software, I think I will have to adda a software list or seperate string...

ADDED "-10 MB eDRAM on the GPU" as Blue to X2 since this has appeared in a developer interview...

[The_One]

Question: Why is there only 256 MB of RAM?
Answer: The mistake many readers are making is to equate the amount of RAM to that of a PC. A console does not need as much RAM as a PC because it's a specialized device that serves a specific function and it does not need to run a full operating system.

That said, a few developers pulled me aside to tell me that they think Microsoft is upping the RAM to 512 MB.
I believe this can be added (either as assumption or rumour) for the XBox 2's RAM.
Source: Here (http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/microsoft-xbox/595060p1.html)

[StrifeSnake13*]

Hey great topic dez. You could add the Assumption that all xbox2 games and the system will support high definition.

[Epsilon-Zero]

I added some new information that IGN and Gamespy posted up.

Hard Drive: Xenon's hard drive is optional. It's not built in like the current Xbox. A total of 2 GB of the drive will be used as game cache. The final drive size is still being determined. The Hard Drive will be 2.5" form factor and sold separately. Microsoft's current plan is to require you to buy the hard drive to enable backward compatibility with current Xbox games. This way, Microsoft recovers the cost of its hard drive, plus it is most likely to give buyers of the HD Xbox Live subscriptions.

Controllers: The new controllers will be around the same size as the current S-controllers. Microsoft has eschewed the dual triggers for shoulder buttons, and the design is said to be a mixture between the current S-controllers and the current PS2 controllers. They will not feature slots for memory cards, which, we're told, are on the console itself. The system supports 64 megabyte memory cards. There are three controller slots, two controllers on front of the system, plus one USB on the back. Controllers have 2.5mm jacks for headset use.


Im still not sure what to file this under so im putting it under Assumption i guess for now cuz we do have a source.

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/595/595535p1.html


EDIT-

Wireless Options: Xenon will enable both wired and wireless controllers (like the Nintendo WaveBird or the Logitech controllers), and comes with RF receivers for wireless options. The system also supports an optional Internet router/adapter.


http://xbox.ign.com/articles/595/595535p1.html

[siren]

Figure I would announce this here in the thread. Due to this thread Dez is currently nominated for a Post of the Week award.

Once everything is finalized, he will most likely get a unique custom icon attached to his profile and a bonus award of points.

[Playstation4life]

Post of the week, ive never heard of such thing? i think because of the way information beeing released it should be monthy, but meh, i cant argue can i.

And thanks dez for explaneing the whole XDR RAM thing.

[siren]

Offtopic

We have had a "post of the week" award available for a couple months now. Though, if there are no posts that greatly exceed our already high quality bar, then no one gets the award for that week. We figure that at max, one will be given a week.

[PS Gamer]

New update for the xenon,

http://www.ps3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1503

[dude54321]

the PS3 having 2 CELLs is a rumor... it should be moved into the green.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn't say it was fact, that's his "assumption." It seems like a logical assumption to me, but nothing will be fact until it's made public.


Actaully I read that it will have four cells, two for ps3 play and 2 for backwards compatibility.










But who really knows.

[dude54321]

http://www.ccfx.net/nextbox/images/xbox2/images/xbox2_schematic.jpg

So... whats this mean?
Sorry, I don't know my computer lingo.


MOD EDIT

Next Time Link To Large Width Images

[PS Gamer]

Nothing really...there just showing the structure...PS3 has one also

http://www.theinquirer.net/images/articles/playstation3.gif

[siren]

That structure isn't for the PS3. That is for "Cyber World"

[PS Gamer]

Oh my mistake then, Cause of all the cells must have confused me :oops:

[The_One]

That structure isn't for the PS3. That is for "Cyber World" Technically, it's not limited to only the Cyber World. It can apply to anything that has massive amount of CELL's connected and operating together.

[bustabusta196]

AKA.. Cyber World... 5 word min...

[The_One]

AKA.. Cyber World... 5 word min... No. The "Cyber World" and multiple CELL's being connected together are two different things. Cyber World is some sort of "Matrix"-like realm that Sony came up with. Multiple CELLs connected together would simply be... Multiple CELLs :lol:. Not cyber world.

[gaming ultima]

Cool guys thanks for the list I will list my updates here;

Playsattion4Life - If you read the statement "64 Megabyte per RAM chip) of XDR DRAM, with Rambus' interface technology. Up to four can be used per Cell chip, for a maximum RAM figure of 256 Megabytes per Cell Chip. " It states that you can have 4 cjips per cell,for 256MB of RAM per Cell proccessor.

Siren -
1TeraFlop _ I added as rumour becuase there is no technical documents to back this up, I can provide technical documents for the Cell theoritcal reach, but this is just one statement from one person with no backup or proof.
Fact - Xbox2 Wireless controller support (confirmed in GDC keynote and tied into Dashboard extended UI) - added
Assumption - Xbox2 Wireless network support (lots of talk about wireless in GDC keynote, would make sense) -added wi-fi
Fact - Xbox2 all games Live Aware - not really hardware.. thinking I should add software section..
Fact - Xbox2 all games support custom music (unknown what media can be used for music storage) - again not hardware but should og in software.. also makes me thinkg the hard drive may not be optional....
Fact - New XNA Studio development system that allows all computer languages to be used in a team collaberation development environment. -- Added this to proccesor since some of thishas to be embedded onto firmware.

The_One - added 8x as assumption to RAM & added CPU-GPU under rumor

gaming Ultima - I cannot find a source to back up your RAM per chip.. I got my information from the makers of the RAM who confirmed development for the PS3 and provided that specific information on how it was being built.. I can find a source it should be easy enough...
-Blu-Ray is 54 and DVD is 11, HD-DVD is 34.. check www.blu-ray.com
-as far as the dx9 and shader 3.0. these details where revealed to the public this week at the GDC.. should be easy finidng a source.. http://www.ps3portal.com/?view=article&article=88&PHPSESSID=d85318dbcb7b78e7672e633b404309bc try that..


Zero - Live features are again software, I think I will have to adda a software list or seperate string...

ADDED "-10 MB eDRAM on the GPU" as Blue to X2 since this has appeared in a developer interview...
bout te blu-ray discs transferee rate, sorry bout that but i was just going by the blu-ray disc specification 1.0 minimum requirements, also should be noted that for write speed it still has 36Mbps on the blu-ray website, not that that matters for the ps3 though
as for the GPU there has been a lot of possible confusion as to what the nvidia marketing guy actually was saying. as in the interview where most people took him to mean that the ps3 gpu will be using direct x 9 he was previously talking about their next gen pc card, and then going on to say that the ps3 gpu will be based off it, and then going on to say that it will be the most feature rich blah blah blah
it was either him or nvidia's CEO who also said that the ps3 GPU will have nothing to do with widnows etc etc whatsoever
so what did this guy mean? well considering that cell supports graphics (and also collada, so if the ps3 gpu is to support collada then ...) though OPEN GL ES(or at least a slightly modded version of anyway), so wouldn’t it make sense for the ps3 gpu to basically be open gl based? open gl does basically have a equivalent to shader model 3 that in electronic terms isnt really anydiffrent to DX shader model 3. also almost all new nvidia cards support open gl as well so............
and as for the ram, well read this thread http://www.ps3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1106&highlight=ram
ok and now for some breif explanation of some stuff, all ram sticks consist of several chips of a certain density, its most common to have 8 chips on a stick but you dont have to or anything
the way XDR works (in very simple terms) is that each chips gets its own 16 bit wide bus space, more chips you have, the more bandwidth at a certain clockspeed you got
anyway XDR sticks can have anything up to 16 chips per stick (though i dont think any are being produced with less then 4, or was it 2, ahh I cant remember)
check this out on their website
anyway im going somewhere with this but its going to have to later as i gotta head off to college now

[Jan31]

Hello everybody,

My name is Jan and I'm from the Netherlands (Holland).
This is my first post on this forum and I would like to say to the Administrators and Moderators: Good work ! I like the professional and serious debates and I'm very impressed by the knowledge and assumptions (based on probability and newsletters, articles from Sony) about the forthcoming console PS3.

Although I've tried to find an answer for my question, I have a hard time finding it.
If it is already posted somewhere or in another sticky then I apologise. I must have overlooked it somehow, anyway my question is as follows:

I was wondering if it is possible to connect the PS3 to a PC VGA monitor. It would be nice if there were multiple outputs on the back, just like a high-end/gamer PC graphics card have. (VGA, TV-OUT, S-VHS, digital monitor output, etc)
I do mean a built-in connection and not an adapter that has to be purchased seperately that just 'converts' the TV signal into the VGA-frequency (result would be a slightly blurry overal image) , but a real (S)VGA signal with sharp images and proper V-Sync, pixel measures, scan lines, interlacing, etcetera)
I imagine that the PS3 will probably support HDTV (Perhaps this is already a known fact, sorry for my ignorance, but I'm not entirely technical).

Thank you very much in advance for any response and again I apologise for not knowing all the facts, if there is an extensive post on this subject could you please guide me there ?

Greetings and Regards,

Jan31

[siren]

Very little has been officially talked about concerning the PS3 at this time. Instincts tell me that it will support HDTV, and more than likely botht he Xbox2 and PS3 will have a DVI and possible a HDMI port on either the system or the Adapter that is for "HD".

[Jan31]

Thank you siren for your response :D
DVI was the abbreviation I was looking for (kinda forgot so I mentioned 'digital monitor output' instead)
I think that your instincts are correct about HDTV, although it is not certain, it would be nice if the developers of the PS3 would consider HDTV.
Another great implementation would be a removable graphics card, so that in the future when full featured HDTV is common or widely available, you only need to replace the graphics card and not the entire console as a whole. Like a PC with AGP/PCI expansion slot.
if the graphics are solely done by the GPU without help from the main CPU then this would be easier to implement.
But HDTV is not my main concern at the moment, I don't have HDTV and probably won't have in the next 5 or 10 years or so.
just a (S)VGA connector with configurable frequencies would be great, or automatic monitor detection (plug and play).
Anyway, thanks again.. :D

[siren]

Putting in the ability to upgrade your console would be the death of that console.

The biggest draw to a console for the development community isn't its power. It is the ability to rely on the platform. You are only coding to one defined piece of hardware.

It is not a PC. You do not have to worry about just how fast the user's system is.

Developers have done a lot of things developing for consoles that would normally be considered bad practice, but because they have a set piece of hardware, it's not a problem. If you allowed the GPU to be upgraded, you would think it would not interfere. But one of the things devs do is find bugs in the architecture and exploit them to create effects that wouldn't otherwise be possible, or would be too expensive to create through the proper means.

[PS Gamer]

Fact: The Playstation 3 will be using wireless controllers

http://www.ps3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1573

All the info is in that post ^

[gtecartman]

If you allow upgrading consoles then you take away the even part of online gaming. That is why I love consoles more than pcs, there is equal oportunity for all equal bandwith players. If they start allowing upgrades I wouldn't buy a console anymore I would just buy a computer.

[Joborule]

That structure isn't for the PS3. That is for "Cyber World"

Excuse me if I sound dumb :oops: but what Is cyber world. Is it the name that might be for online

[siren]

CyberWorld is more than likely going to be the brand name for Sony's "Xbox Live" like service, if not the official name, it is probably the codename.

[muchuukuri]

On a seperate note, I think we WILL see HDMI on the Sony machine... if I recall correctly there was a law passed stating all electronic devices sold after this coming July (or June, was it??) that they must be HDMI compliant, due to the embedded protection. I'm kinda fuzzy on this though... if I recall correctly, last time I heard, it was in contention... but ... meh... my memory's too foggy sorry.

[gaming ultima]

On a seperate note, I think we WILL see HDMI on the Sony machine... if I recall correctly there was a law passed stating all electronic devices sold after this coming July (or June, was it??) that they must be HDMI compliant, due to the embedded protection. I'm kinda fuzzy on this though... if I recall correctly, last time I heard, it was in contention... but ... meh... my memory's too foggy sorry.
Sony is part of the HDMI working group as well.....

[Playstation4life]

For the ill knowlaged like my self, what its HDMI?

[Asess1no]

For the ill knowlaged like my self, what its HDMI?


HDMI- High-Definition Multimedia Interface
-
http://www.hdmi.org 8)

[Playstation4life]

ohh, the word just explains it to me, so the US is pushing High definition as the UK is pushing digital entertainment, and then (in the UK) HD will come and they wont know what hit them.

[Asess1no]

When one compares regular ntsc tv's to Hdtv resolutions its a pretty big leap, from what i heard dont they require permits in Uk to have tv's? i dont know if that affects Hdtv's.

[The_One]

When one compares regular ntsc tv's to Hdtv resolutions its a pretty big leap, from what i heard dont they require permits in Uk to have tv's? i dont know if that affects Hdtv's.
Of course the leap in resolution is huge. Otherwise why would they even bother making HDTV?
If it was just 640x480 to 800x600, I'm sure no one would bother getting a HDTV.

As for permits... Umm... WHICH country(ies) in the world actually requires as permit to own a TV?? :roll:

[gaming ultima]

When one compares regular ntsc tv's to Hdtv resolutions its a pretty big leap, from what i heard dont they require permits in Uk to have tv's? i dont know if that affects Hdtv's.
Of course the leap in resolution is huge. Otherwise why would they even bother making HDTV?
If it was just 640x480 to 800x600, I'm sure no one would bother getting a HDTV.

As for permits... Umm... WHICH country(ies) in the world actually requires as permit to own a TV?? :roll:
don’t think any country does
in the UK you gotta have a licence if your receiving a tv signal from somewhere though, it pays for the BBC (which is why the BBC channels dont have any adverts)
there's been a lot of questioning how the BBC should be funded recently though because of various reasons im not gonna get into
the current method for paying for it has been around for a very very long time.....

[Playstation4life]

And i think its decided for another decade that you godda pay your TV licence i think,

[gaming ultima]

And i think its decided for another decade that you godda pay your TV licence i think,
yep, they thinking of changing the rules once the royal charter for something or other runs out which in around a decade or something, i cant remember

[Civilian]

the license pays for something like 9 tv channels (most only on digital) and a whole load of radio stations (most only on digital). You can argue that you don't need a license if you are only using for dvd's or gaming but they make it pretty hard!!

Personally I don't mind paying and not having to put up with adverts about tampons and cr*p like that, but it's a shame that we are going to be so far behind the US when we all finally have digital tv!

[Playstation4life]

You thought we were behind? France only just launched their digital TV service a few weeks ago, they are the last country in the EU to have digital

[jlippone]

In finland we have tv-permit which we must pay, if we 'use' tv.
its a 193,95€ / 251.4348$ for a one year. :shock:
This is same for analogue and digital.
Also if you have cellphone-tv or tv-card in your computer you must pay for it, Happily you need only one permit for a household.

If you get caught its 100€ and double the tv-permit for the time you have used the tv.


Quote from tv-fee website.
A television fee shall be payable for the use of a television set. Use of a television set also includes keeping or storing a TV set in such a way that it can, at any time, be easily used to receive television programmes.
http://www.tv-maksu.fi/eng_navi2_2.html

[gaming ultima]

You thought we were behind? France only just launched their digital TV service a few weeks ago, they are the last country in the EU to have digital
haha the suckers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and the licence pays for the whole of the bbc including their online stuff
but yes most of the channels are only available on digital but most of the funding goes to BBC1 and 2 anyway so it doesn’t matter plus it shows in the quality of programs that go on it
and as for the radio channels, well if you dont have digital why dont you just get a radio and listen to them like that .....

[The_One]

@jilippone: Wow, that must suck to actually have to pay a permit to own a TV... What kind of wacked out place is Finland :shock:!?

[Epsilon-Zero]

wow this topic has really gone off topic. :lol:

but anyway i know ppl in the UK who hide their TV in the closet when the TV license inspectors come by.

personally i think the whole TV license system is ridiculous. i dont understand why the viewer has to pay to keep the programming running. The studio should be responsible for generating revenue to stay in business. These channels basicly can make lowsy programing and not have to worry because they will get their money anyway from the licenses.


lets try to get things back on topic now 8)

[Playstation4life]

Theres not many facts or assumtions going around the net, time to go hunting google. :roll:

[Thegamingdwarf]

Lol and the hunt beggins :lol:

One rumour that is circulating now that DezNutz has included a Xbox 2 bit on this topic is that the xbox 2 will be able to either lay flat of stand on one edge like the PS2.

And a rumor/assumption is that sony is going to try and unite blu ray and HD-DVD, this is a rumor because even though a sony exec has said it to the press nothing has come out as being a compramise and its and assumption because sony like doing this sort of thing, merging formats to make it better so it is 50/50 that they will actually do it.

And finally a BIG rumor is that the xbox 2 will be sort of custamisable like you can pop on and off new dash boards ect with a PC level of custamisation like wall papers and screen savers. This is a bit off the wall but its nice to think about :roll:

[bustabusta196]

How is it a bit off the wall.. you do it now on your computer.. microsoft is just giving the consumer more power to have there own identity.. it would be awesome to be able to customize your own sh*t cant wait.

[Thegamingdwarf]

eh, you can custamise a pc dashboard? i never knew that but i would agree with you that its a good idea, the reason i say a bit off the wall is because im not sure how you would change the look of the unit, would it be clip on or what would it be?

I like the idea of being able to have screen savers and wallpapers though that would be really cool, maybe games could encorperate a camera in to game play so you can take a pic and then use it as a wall paper or record part of the game you did really well and use it as your screen saver. It could also be used online, to make it easier to identify you like an avatar.

[Playstation4life]

If your a novice at pc's and want to take customization to the next level, try having a go at aston shell if you wish, and create a very alternertive desktop. To the usual windows customization.

[cyrusmg]

so how about those facts and assumptions...

this just hardware? or is gonna include these rumours about the uber-list of developers for the XBOX2 that has been getting around recently?

and i do think that the wireless connection from PSP to PS3 is worth going up, unless it has been officially denied and i just missed it.

[Epsilon-Zero]

hmm i thought that was covered with the wireless connectivity spot. if not ill look thru and change it

[Thegamingdwarf]

this just hardware? or is gonna include these rumours about the uber-list of developers for the XBOX2 that has been getting around recently?


Err, ok heres some things that i have heard:
Metal Gear solid 4 is in development as a next generation game especially for PS3, but the twist is that even though it is still being made by Konami and Hideo Kojima is still invoved he is not heading up the project. Someone new is.

That M$ have signed 3 japanese famouse developers one of them is i think from the frequency development team one is from Capcom and the other is a famouse RPG maker. This list is still being added to by M$ but it is obviouse this is a try to capture a bit of japan.

Apparently Nintendo are going on-line at E3 and are going to show off their online service that will be compatiable with the next generation making it easier to transfer accounts and apparently its going to be big on Nintendo list of next gen games.

Nintendo are going to have touch screen controllers so that developers can configure them to how they want the controller to be, this will be revolutioanry but me and many other people cant see it happening.

Ill stop there because i have suddenly realised the title of this thread says "HARDWARE facts/asumptions and rumors" Ill wait to see if he changes it to games and hardware if not ill make a thread on game fact assumptions and rumors, sorry for going off topic. :roll:

[MiThRaZoR]

You got the green one on topic. But yeah, maybe if you find a list and stuff. Everything on the first post then go ahead. You could be the post of the month.. Err, whatever it is.

[Krochy]

read in may issue of computer shopper that the "next version of the playstation video-game console will have nine processor cores and run faster than 4GHz."

it also says that the ps3 is " Expected to be released late this year or early next."

[MiThRaZoR]

Wait, what does it mean it will have "nine processor cores"? Nine cells? That's crazy, if not then what does that mean? Even if they do they probably won't, since the price.. :roll:

And yeah, it is actually expected to be released late this year or early next year. It's been like that for a long time. But many people doubt this. For one I don't think it will be late this year is because,

1)nVidia is supposed to be finished with their Geforce 7000 by then.
2)Once they do, production will take along time. So not late this year.

Hopefully we can count on nVidia to get it done at that time or before. So it could come out sooner. And they would also need to test the PS3 or something. To make sure there are no bugs. And Japan would be first getting the PS3 so it could be later in the States and Europe.

[KWD]

Probably referring to the PPU's, which sounds accurate.

[Schmeh]

Wait, what does it mean it will have "nine processor cores"? Nine cells? That's crazy, if not then what does that mean? Even if they do they probably won't, since the price.. :roll:

They are counting the PPE as a core and each SPE as a core. So 1 PPE + 8 SPE's and you get 9 cores.

[Final_fantasy]

sorry if some of this stuff isn't new but i thought i would post it any way

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1727

that is an in depth view of the cell processor. so in theory if the cell processor can communicate with outside cell chips and/or systems to increase processing power, it doesnt matter what the strength of the system is if you add a hdtv with a cell chip in it and your processing power is up'd a notch. and in a recent thread, sony has patented a "matrix like" idea that will literally put you in the game. that may come up in maybe 15 to 20 years. staying on topic if they do have an idea to have a touch screen controller wouldnt that be intruding on nintendo's Dual Screen systems technology?

[Joborule]

Oh great we don't need another lawsuit :roll:

[Smily0012]

Im seriously think now that ps3 will have an eye toy with the system. I mean sony is really experimenting with the eye toy, the features actually look cool and hopefully all future online games will use it. Here are some example of how sony is experiment witht the eye toy.

http://media.ps2.ign.com/media/681/681449/imgs_1.html
http://media.ps2.ign.com/media/715/715377/imgs_1.html
http://media.ps2.ign.com/media/617/617059/imgs_1.html

http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/article/609/609672/eyetoy-chat-20050503034749283.jpg

http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/eyetoy_050504_000.jpg

http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/article/554/554115/eyetoy-play-2-20041005094749765.jpg

http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/article/609/609668/eyetoy-play-2-20050503032419013.jpg

http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/article/609/609669/eyetoy-kinetic-20050503032831274.jpg

http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/article/578/578524/eyetoy-kinetic-20050110105325781.jpg

http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/article/534/534722/eyetoy-chat-20040730112722551.jpg

[Damnit]

Concept is uber cool, but the last thing I'd want associated with PS3 is that Late Night Shows highlighting Crazy Grannies all over America rocking the scene in their living rooms. Now that'd be .... don't know what to say more. That'd be Foobar!

[Makaveli_786]

That is an interesting concept you know, I doubt PS3 would come with a cam built in though, why give it away when you can sell it seperately and make money off it?

Anyway it should really be interesting next-gen because of the more powerful hardware and software involved, means you can do more with a peripheral like the eyetoy, imagine moving things around on the screen like in minority report, I hope Nintendo are watching they could learn something from Sony.

[Damnit]

Sounds like Sony is fully aware of the perks of tackling Nintendo's strategy of turning heads around. Letting non-gamers in on the fun. These screens indicate exactly what Nintendo had envisioned but Sony is practically experimenting with(already!!!). Wow.

[Makaveli_786]

WOW I hope Nintendo really have something big lined up now, theyr not the only ones trying to innovate anymore!

[bustabusta196]

Those screens look like a concept of what XboxLive for Xbox360.. or even the old XboxLive when they were talking about the camera.. could already do. but id say spice up the backgrounds more of make better looking ones.. other then that it would be pretty cool.. sorta like what you seen when talking with someone on MSN on webcam..

LOL that grandma picture is just wrong too lol. :lol:

[Smily0012]

well the granny pic shows that old people already play games (lol ms idea for next gen). Anyways i think the features are going to be better next gen becuase theyre going have better graphics.

[bustabusta196]

MS idea for next generation.. but yet sony is the one releasing pictures of it lol.

[adamba4e]

That is an interesting concept you know, I doubt PS3 would come with a cam built in though, why give it away when you can sell it seperately and make money off it?

Anyway it should really be interesting next-gen because of the more powerful hardware and software involved, means you can do more with a peripheral like the eyetoy, imagine moving things around on the screen like in minority report, I hope Nintendo are watching they could learn something from Sony.

Well they wouldn't give it away because it would be built into the price. But they might get less of a profit because they still have to keep the price close to the Xbox 360's price which is rumored to be $240-$299.

[Smily0012]

Adamba4e you got to understand that the sony is leading game system, they can do what ever they want, ms is the one that needs to keep up with sony. Look at ds and the psp, it was 50 dollars more and people still brought it.

[adamba4e]

Adamba4e you got to understand that the sony is leading game system, they can do what ever they want, ms is the one that needs to keep up with sony. Look at ds and the psp, it was 50 dollars more and people still brought it.

Yah your right. Exept the PSP( $250) was $100 more than the DS ($150)

[IonCannon]

MS idea for next generation.. but yet sony is the one releasing pictures of it lol.

You can't really say that it was MS's idea, when the notion of online gaming using a webcam has been discussed for ages, and I'm sure Sony would have had more in mind with there Eyetoy then just singleplayer uses.



Well they wouldn't give it away because it would be built into the price. But they might get less of a profit because they still have to keep the price close to the Xbox 360's price which is rumored to be $240-$299.

I tend to agree because some Sony dude discussed the idea in an interview a while back I'm sure. However physically I don't think it could be "built in" to the system because people put there machines in all kinds of places. Rather it might come in a bundle like the PSP pack or something.

[muchuukuri]

Hmmm... I dunno how to take this... Kotaku has been near spot on about the 360... surprisingly... so I'm actually willing to believe what they say. The problem I have is if that last statement is kotaku posturing or the source talking. I only say this because I find it hard to believe Sony didn't take the lessons they learned with the EE full and utterly to heart. The wasted horsepower smacks of the EE, so I'm looking at it suspiciously... though not to say I full out believe what's being said about the CELL CPU going into the PS3, but the last line seems very off from what I would expect of Sony this time around. They learned full well how much a bottleneck can hurt the graphics in a system, so I can't imagine that they'd let it slide again...

I'll call it a mix up... that they missunderstood the source in some form in way... after the "faster" line could just mean 3x the frequency in the PS3 vs the X2.

Or perhaps the statement came out of the vast diff. between the CPU and GPU?? Kinda like the situation in PCs today... the latest GPUs are running Doom3 and HL2 at 80FPS with max settings... I think SLI can even push a 100... it's a total waste... maybe something like that...

All I'm saying is prolly someone got their wires crossed when talking about the CPUs.

[orbital123]

Hmmm... I dunno how to take this... Kotaku has been near spot on about the 360... surprisingly... so I'm actually willing to believe what they say. The problem I have is if that last statement is kotaku posturing or the source talking. I only say this because I find it hard to believe Sony didn't take the lessons they learned with the EE full and utterly to heart. The wasted horsepower smacks of the EE, so I'm looking at it suspiciously... though not to say I full out believe what's being said about the CELL CPU going into the PS3, but the last line seems very off from what I would expect of Sony this time around. They learned full well how much a bottleneck can hurt the graphics in a system, so I can't imagine that they'd let it slide again...

I'll call it a mix up... that they missunderstood the source in some form in way... after the "faster" line could just mean 3x the frequency in the PS3 vs the X2.

Or perhaps the statement came out of the vast diff. between the CPU and GPU?? Kinda like the situation in PCs today... the latest GPUs are running Doom3 and HL2 at 80FPS with max settings... I think SLI can even push a 100... it's a total waste... maybe something like that...

All I'm saying is prolly someone got their wires crossed when talking about the CPUs.

the lastes computers are running games at 1600x1200 with 6x FSAA at 80fps+

I run both the game at 60 - 70fps with a 6600gt and an athlon xp2100+ and 512meg of ram. Top of the line computers aren't even pushed by this generation of games. It's going to take next generation games to push the current top cards.

[Damnit]

Regarding the hardware rumors. I just read this article at Inquirer about how the next-gen Nvidia card(G70) will take a single slot and won't be a power hungry beast as the previous rumors stated. If that is true then rejoice, coz this means the G70 XDR hybrid in PS3 won't be power hungry either meaning less cost of development for Sony on the PSU. Yay! Also meaning we might get to see a moderately priced console.

Here is the rumor article.
http://www.the-inquirer.com/?article=23098

[Dantheman_1788]

dang i havent posted for a long time so i kindaof dont know what is going on really. but i hope the nvidia G70 gives the Ati card a run for its money. has anyone heard any info on da Unreal Engine 3.0. if so please post a link. ty for ur help.


Keep it true:Lawrence,Ks

[The_One]

dang i havent posted for a long time so i kindaof dont know what is going on really. but i hope the nvidia G70 gives the Ati card a run for its money. has anyone heard any info on da Unreal Engine 3.0. if so please post a link. ty for ur help.


Keep it true:Lawrence,Ks
The nVidia GPU won't give the ATi card a run for its money. Both GPU should be pretty much neck to neck from a real-time performance point of view.

As for UE 3.0, it's confirmed that they will use it for Unreal Tournament 2007:
http://www.beyondunreal.com/main/future/ut2007.php (3 new screens are there too).

[PS Gamer]

The nVidia GPU won't give the ATi card a run for its money. Both GPU should be pretty much neck to neck from a real-time performance point of view.

Saying both GPU's should be neck to neck is almost the samething as saying nVidia will give ATi a run for there money. Well actully its the other way around, nVidia is at well used to be at the top of the market, now ATi is just barely ahead of them.

[Damnit]

I just think in the near future both will be on a seesaw ride when the SLI, AMR become full force enemies. Right now Nvidia is heavy with the SLI already implemented on AMD and now on Intel platforms as well. Nvidia is ahead at the moment but we won't know for how long because we haven't heard anything revolutionary about next-gen PC cards. Both have always moved at a turtle's pace in terms of graphics leap. Every 3-6 months and out came a new card with a 50-100Mhz increase in Memory and Core clock speeds. I doubt the next-gen leap will be extraordinary for PC graphics but I won't know for sure until I actually see it in action(some benchmarks too).

What I'm most interested in right now is that How the G70's hybrid will utilize the super speedy XDR RAM in PS3 compared to the GDDR3 in ATI's R500 Hybrid for Xbox360.

[StrifeSnake13*]

you could add these to the facts section for the 360,

Хboх 360 System Performance - Draft
Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU


* 3 symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each
* 2 hardware threads per core; 6 hardware threads total
* 1 VMX-128 vector unit per core; 3 total
* 128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread
* 1 MB L2 cache

CPU Game Math Performance


* 9 billion dot product operations per second

Custom ATI Graphics Processor


* 500 MHz
* 10 MB embedded DRAM
* 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically-scheduled shader pipelines
* Unified shader architecture

Polygon Performance


* 500 million triangles per second

Pixel Fill Rate


* 16 gigasamples per second fillrate using 4X MSAA

Shader Performance


* 48 billion shader operations per second

Memory


* 512 MB GDDR3 RAM
* 700 MHz DDR
* Unified memory architecture

Memory Bandwidth


* 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
* 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
* 21.6 GB/s front-side bus

Overall System Floating-Point Performance


* 1 TFLOP

Storage


* Detachable and upgradeable 20 GB hard drive
* 12X dual-layer DVD-ROM
* Memory unit support starting at 64 MB

I/O


* Support for up to 4 wireless game controllers
* 3 USB 2.0 ports
* 2 memory unit slots

Optimized for Online


* Instant, out-of-the-box access to Xbox Live features, including Xbox Live Marketplace for downloadable content, Gamer Profile for digital identity and voice chat to talk to friends while playing games, watching movies or listening to music
* Built in Ethernet Port
* Wi-Fi Ready: 802.11 A, B and G
* Video Camera Ready

Digital Media Support


* Support for DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-DA, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 CD, JPEG Photo CD
* Stream media from portable music devices, digital cameras, Windows XP PCs
* Rip music to Xbox 360 hard drive
* Custom playlists in every game
* Windows Media Center Extender built in
* Interactive, full screen 3D visualizers

HD Game Support


* All games supported at 16:9, 720p and 1080i, anti-aliasing
* Standard definition and high definition video output supported

Audio


* Multichannel surround sound output
* Supports 48 KHz 16-bit audio
* 320 independent decompression channels
* 32-bit audio processing
* Over 256 audio channels

System Orientation


* Stands vertically or horizontally

Customizable Face Plates


* Interchangeable to personalize the console



http://hardware.teamxbox.com/articles/xbox/1144/The-Xbox-360-System-Specifications/p1

[Makaveli_786]

Overall system performing point is really 115.2 gigaflops not 1 teraflop, polygon performance is about 160 million polygons(not 500 million polygons, thats TRIANGLES)